http://www.chron.com/news/article/Te...se-4030870.php
This is very appealing and intriguing to me!
What are your thoughts?
- guest020313
- 11-12-2012, 10:25 PM
- atxlonghorn
- 11-12-2012, 10:35 PM
The reason I assume people would want to secede is that they are tired of the spending etc, and are tired of carrying other parts of the nation. If Texas did secede, how long do you think it would remain in its current form? How long until Dallas and Houston decided they didn't want to prop up east Texas? The state would fracture into many city-states, and it would become increasingly difficult to protect ourselves.
- ozmosys
- 11-12-2012, 10:52 PM
I don't think that's a very good idea. The Republic of Texas days were no picnic. Money was scarce, life was tough, and we were vulnerable to threats from within and without. Annexation was a godsend. Communities flourished, investments were made, the population increased.
Sure, you will find a few tens of thousands of people who will sign a petition like that. But if we actually seceded, you would see a flight of our best and brightest back into the bosom of the secure and stable USA. Trade would dry up like the Sahara.
And there would be a power vacuum. Who exactly is going to fill that vacuum? Maybe the reincarnation of Napolean Bonaparte. Maybe not. I don't think that it will be someone who is very nice.
And think of all the investments that the USA has made into military installations in Texas. They enrich our economy, and if we try to take them away from the legal entity who created them, we will be met with storm and fury.
And why aren't more people standing in line to sign the petition not to secede? It just may be that most Texans don't think it's an idea worthy of attention.
Sure, you will find a few tens of thousands of people who will sign a petition like that. But if we actually seceded, you would see a flight of our best and brightest back into the bosom of the secure and stable USA. Trade would dry up like the Sahara.
And there would be a power vacuum. Who exactly is going to fill that vacuum? Maybe the reincarnation of Napolean Bonaparte. Maybe not. I don't think that it will be someone who is very nice.
And think of all the investments that the USA has made into military installations in Texas. They enrich our economy, and if we try to take them away from the legal entity who created them, we will be met with storm and fury.
And why aren't more people standing in line to sign the petition not to secede? It just may be that most Texans don't think it's an idea worthy of attention.
- trynagetlaid
- 11-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Please don't move the Border Patrol up to the Red River.
I only have one big head and I'd like to keep it!!!
I only have one big head and I'd like to keep it!!!
- mm175d
- 11-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Doesn't this belong in The Sandbox? Like kitty litter?
- Bobave
- 11-12-2012, 11:36 PM
You're not from Texas, are you, Ozmosys?
We have elections now, we still would.
As for military bases, equipment can be moved. The land always belonged to Texas, so no issue there. Texas has a large balanced economy with diverse resources (would have one of the larger economies among nations) and does a lot of international trade. The U.S. government is not imperial, states aren't just administrative units. It's a federation of states we're talking about.
We have elections now, we still would.
As for military bases, equipment can be moved. The land always belonged to Texas, so no issue there. Texas has a large balanced economy with diverse resources (would have one of the larger economies among nations) and does a lot of international trade. The U.S. government is not imperial, states aren't just administrative units. It's a federation of states we're talking about.
- ozmosys
- 11-12-2012, 11:43 PM
- endurance
- 11-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Wouldn't it be way smarter to form an alliance with many of the other dissatisfied states.
(Texas and Alaska sure would be a big chunk of land!)
I don't think the united states could have survived if it weren't for that nice ocean between us and england...
The mere viable threat of breaking away from the union sure would make a big difference in negotiating how things are done from dc.
(Texas and Alaska sure would be a big chunk of land!)
I don't think the united states could have survived if it weren't for that nice ocean between us and england...
The mere viable threat of breaking away from the union sure would make a big difference in negotiating how things are done from dc.
- Qziz
- 11-13-2012, 12:44 AM
To put it mildly, it would not be a good idea.
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/..._if_it_secedes
Also, in case anyone was unclear on the subject, secession isn't permitted by the Constitution, regardless of what state law might hold on the subject (we did fight a war about this, after all):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/..._if_it_secedes
Also, in case anyone was unclear on the subject, secession isn't permitted by the Constitution, regardless of what state law might hold on the subject (we did fight a war about this, after all):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
- Sire
- 11-13-2012, 12:45 AM
Let's do it! It'll be fun!
- ozmosys
- 11-13-2012, 07:15 AM
To put it mildly, it would not be a good idea.Great article. Thanks for sharing. So, Kinky as emissary, or maybe as emperor. He'd probably like the sound of that. Just think of all the Peruvian marching powder at his command.
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/..._if_it_secedes
Originally Posted by Qziz
- teyeger72
- 11-13-2012, 07:53 AM
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
Sound familiar? If the colonists could declare their independence from England in order to form the United States, then wouldn't it be hypocritical to say that the states can't do the same? Additionally, while there is nothing in the US Constitution that specifically grants the states the right to secede, the ninth and tenth amendments can be interpreted to allow the states the option to secede.
Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Whether it is a "good idea" or not is up for debate. Just look at Colorado and the legalization of recreational marijuana and its conflict with federal law.
Texas v. White is open to interpretation: http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#texvwhite
I once read somewhere (I can't find the source) but both Texas and Alaska could be self-sustaining within five years if they were allowed to peacefully secede from the Union. We already have the infrastructure - where Alaska is limited to a degree (I lived there from 2007-2011) in its infrastructure - so I think Texas would make a faster transition.
The Texas Constitution does state: "Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States." Not the President. Not Congress. Not the Supreme Court.
Economically, Texas can survive. We've done well on our own during this recession (2nd Great Depression?). The real question is a question of loyalty and patriotism. But when the government continues to turn its back on the will of the people and continues to morgage our futures into the hands of foreign governments with monstrous debt that is now THE number one security threat we face (according to Obama's own chief of staff), perhaps it is time to reconsider our loyalties.
Sound familiar? If the colonists could declare their independence from England in order to form the United States, then wouldn't it be hypocritical to say that the states can't do the same? Additionally, while there is nothing in the US Constitution that specifically grants the states the right to secede, the ninth and tenth amendments can be interpreted to allow the states the option to secede.
Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Whether it is a "good idea" or not is up for debate. Just look at Colorado and the legalization of recreational marijuana and its conflict with federal law.
Texas v. White is open to interpretation: http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm#texvwhite
I once read somewhere (I can't find the source) but both Texas and Alaska could be self-sustaining within five years if they were allowed to peacefully secede from the Union. We already have the infrastructure - where Alaska is limited to a degree (I lived there from 2007-2011) in its infrastructure - so I think Texas would make a faster transition.
The Texas Constitution does state: "Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States." Not the President. Not Congress. Not the Supreme Court.
Economically, Texas can survive. We've done well on our own during this recession (2nd Great Depression?). The real question is a question of loyalty and patriotism. But when the government continues to turn its back on the will of the people and continues to morgage our futures into the hands of foreign governments with monstrous debt that is now THE number one security threat we face (according to Obama's own chief of staff), perhaps it is time to reconsider our loyalties.
- ztonk
- 11-13-2012, 07:55 AM
- artist3000
- 11-13-2012, 09:06 AM
It's one of those ideas that's fun to think about and makes a point, but would be stupid to take literally and actually try in real life. The bottom line is that federal troops would be sent in, some small or large amount of death and destruction would take place, and Texas would be forced to rejoin as a state now weakened by itts own misguided ambitions.
- actionman98
- 11-13-2012, 12:02 PM
It's an interesting concept, but I don't forsee it ever actually happening.