Real Gasoline in Austin

Does anyone know where you can get gasoline without ethanol in Austin? It seems everywhere I go has got ethanol in the gas.

If you don't mind a little lead, then 100LL at your local airport doesn't have any ethanol.

Ethanol is a fact of life at this point ......... back in the day, because ethanol burns at a higher temperature than gas, many exhaust valve and valve seats burned from the higher exhaust temps leading to expensive repairs. Today the valves and seats have been hardened to withstand the higher temps so it's not a problem anymore. Ethanol has less harmful emissions when burned and is cheaper per gallon so what's not to like? Ok, the one big downside is by using ethanol we jacked up the cost of corn tortillias in the thrid world ...... an unitended but predictable outcome of the federal requirement for corn in our fuel.

If you don't mind a little lead, then 100LL at your local airport doesn't have any ethanol. Originally Posted by rCoder

You are right, rcoder, but I have heard that Avgas/100LL is in somewhat short supply these days. I wish I had some for my OLD car *(grin)*

Ethanol is a fact of life at this point .......... Originally Posted by tcreative2

It eats fuel pumps and other car parts. It absorbs water. It gives you lower mileage. It's bad for the environment. They're already planning to change the allowable amount of ethanol to 15% despite the damage it's already doing to cars.

Of course those people with older cars will have their engines and fuel systems destroyed by this phony environmental program. It not only costs them money, but it means you have to build an unnecessary new car, with all the costs that has for the environment.

However, it does get the corn farmers to vote for your political party, especially in the Iowa primary.

I've occasionally seen gas stations that had real gas, but haven't seen one recently.

You're probably right that I won't be able to find real gas anywhere. Our wallets, our cars and the environment will probably be sacrificed by the government to get a few votes from farmers.

By the way, if anyone's getting rid of their old car, check out the Texas air check program. You may be able to get a rebate check, but you've got to apply before you get the new car.

If you don't mind a little lead, then 100LL at your local airport doesn't have any ethanol. Originally Posted by rCoder

I used to burn avgas in my hot rod but as of a couple years ago they will no longer sell you fuel pumped into a container or tank other than an airplane. Most of the fuel systems in cars made since the mid 90's are pretty impervious to alcohol and any water trapped in the fuel increases both milage and energy. During WWII they tried adding water/steam to aviation fuel to increase the range of bombers and it was highly successful but the water vapor corroded the combustion chamber so they dropped it. There are several new ceramic blocks being made that won't have that problem and if put into production could drastically lower the amount of fuel needed by the average driver as much as 20%.

Ethanol really isn't cheaper per gallon

Cost For A Gallon Of Corn Ethanol
Corn Ethanol Futures Market quote for January 2007 Delivery $2.49
Add cost of transporting, storing and blending corn ethano $0.28
Added cost of making gasoline that can be blended with corn ethanol $0.09
Add cost of subsidies paid to blender $0.51
Total Direct Costs per Gallon $3.37

This doesn't reflect costs of waste, car repair costs, loss of corn for food, etc. Current est price including waste etc is $6.89/gal
( source http://www.financialsense.com )

Hmm....Very..interesting....

The U-Floatem marina on Lake Travis had it last summer. Ethanol plays havoc with marine fuel systems and keeps mechanics employed.

What I can't understand is why when I'm in Europe I see all these cars with diesel engines that make no more sound than gas engines, have comparable power, and get much better milage than gas.

While Americans are being pushed into expensive hybreds the Europeans are getting the same milage from a variety of modern diesels which are not even discussed here. And now Chrysler is owned by the largest manufacturer of such engines in Europe, Fiat.

I wouldn't own a hybred if you gave it to me.

What I can't understand is why when I'm in Europe I see all these cars with diesel engines that make no more sound than gas engines, have comparable power, and get much better milage than gas.

While Americans are being pushed into expensive hybreds the Europeans are getting the same milage from a variety of modern diesels which are not even discussed here. And now Chrysler is owned by the largest manufacturer of such engines in Europe, Fiat.

I wouldn't own a hybred if you gave it to me. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

GM (and maybe some of the other US car manufacturers) made a bunch of really crappy diesel auto engines. Noisy, nasty, smoky pieces of crap that were maintenance nightmares. GM in particular, converted some gasoline engines to diesels and didn't properly redesign them to be beefy enough to handle the stress. Repairs were frequent and expensive. Performance was bad. They often wouldn't start in cold weather.

This gave diesels a really bad reputation with US car buyers.

There were also some US pollution standards that were particularly tough to meet with a diesel engine. Because diesels emit a different type of pollution, they were "unfairly" penalized even if the environmental impact of their exhaust wasn't as bad as an "equivalent" gasoline engine.

A high school buddy got a Mercedes turbodiesel for his college graduation present twenty years ago, he's still driving it. Volkswagen makes a few clean diesel cars: Golf, Jetta, Touareg.

The diesels in Europe today sold by every European manufacturer as well as all the Asian ones selling there HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE DIESELS SOLD HERE.

They are as quiet as gas engines, have the same power, produce less or comparable emissions, and get as good milage as hybreds.

I've been told that it's because of computer control systems that were unavailable before, but would like to know more. Is the diesel available here of the same quality as that sold in Europe. The diesel sold here forever was just one step above motor oil in its quality. In Europe I think the diesel is far more refined somehow, and the newer engines require it.

What I think happened is that all of Europe made a commitment to upgrade their diesel standards to allow for these new engines, and that the trucking industry here won't go along with that because it increases the price of the fuel. At least this is my theory.

Does anyone know?

Because their system allows for much better performance and quantum leaps in fuel economy that we're not permitted here and I would like to know WHY?

The diesels in Europe today sold by every European manufacturer as well as all the Asian ones selling there HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE DIESELS SOLD HERE.

They are as quiet as gas engines, have the same power, produce less or comparable emissions, and get as good milage as hybreds.

I've been told that it's because of computer control systems that were unavailable before, but would like to know more. Is the diesel available here of the same quality as that sold in Europe. The diesel sold here forever was just one step above motor oil in its quality. In Europe I think the diesel is far more refined somehow, and the newer engines require it.

What I think happened is that all of Europe made a commitment to upgrade their diesel standards to allow for these new engines, and that the trucking industry here won't go along with that because it increases the price of the fuel. At least this is my theory.

Does anyone know?

Because their system allows for much better performance and quantum leaps in fuel economy that we're not permitted here and I would like to know WHY? Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

I believe that VW is selling "European" style diesel engine powered cars in the US now. I think a lot of the other manufacturers are selling noisy, smoky, clunky old-style diesels here in the US.

I think it's mostly that diesels still have a bad reputation here in the US plus some different pollution standards in the past that unfairly discriminated against diesels. We did switch to "low sulfur" diesel formulations here in the US a year or two ago. I don't know if this is the fuel eurodiesels require.

The diesels in Europe today sold by every European manufacturer as well as all the Asian ones selling there HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE DIESELS SOLD HERE.

They are as quiet as gas engines, have the same power, produce less or comparable emissions, and get as good milage as hybreds.

I've been told that it's because of computer control systems that were unavailable before, but would like to know more. Is the diesel available here of the same quality as that sold in Europe. The diesel sold here forever was just one step above motor oil in its quality. In Europe I think the diesel is far more refined somehow, and the newer engines require it.

What I think happened is that all of Europe made a commitment to upgrade their diesel standards to allow for these new engines, and that the trucking industry here won't go along with that because it increases the price of the fuel. At least this is my theory.

Does anyone know?

Because their system allows for much better performance and quantum leaps in fuel economy that we're not permitted here and I would like to know WHY? Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

The main reason is the more stingent us emission standards for particulates. This requires some expensive exhaust after treatment in the form of particulate filters with purge cycles that temporarily burn excess fuel to bake out the soot that clogs such filters. The devices exist now on all 2007 and later 3/4 ton and bigger pickups from the big three, and they have been very unreliable. The purge cycles put a big dent in fuel mileage, and the added displacement needed to overcome their power loss puts another big hit in the economy. Diesels which used to get 21 mpg in a 3/4 ton truck like a Dodge cummins 5.9 diesel now are lucky to get 13-14 mpgs with the bigger motor with the particulate filters. The financial payback on such trucks requires lots of mileage to make a difference over the gas versions. With smaller diesels, you still have to add these expensive filters plus some kind of treatment for NOx emissions like urea injection. More expense again. Top that off with the need for ultra low sulfur diesel, and the added expense to refine it, and diesel is now more expensive than gasoline. Where I think diesels will make better inroads here is as the power unit for hybrids where you can design a near constant speed unit that can get low emissions with minimal after treatment using tight control of the fueling system. Maybe Subaru, VW, and BMW will also change perceptions here some. For me, I love my old dodge diesel and newer Jeep liberty diesel, but I'm in the minority.