so i was watching the history channel last night, the discussion was about the universe.
there were several learned men, discussing cosmic decades and what age we were currently in, and how the stars will burn themselves out until there are only red dwarfs and maybe, just maybe, life (man?) will try to harness the faint remaining heat from these drawfs until they too die and black holes reign, long after the earth is burnt to cinders in the death throes of our sun.
it gave me an unsettling feeling. perhaps i just let things bother me that shouldn't, but still they do... the emptiness and ultimate meaninglessness of things. we search for something to hang onto, we dont want to miss out. i know this will be met perhaps blithely with bluff excalmations of "i dont search for anything and i dont need anything or i am fine" and "you are strange" well ok, maybe i am.
then i ran into this article about Lady Gaga, falling, her veneer ripped from her in the click of a papparazi's camera.
she had this to say, at least honestly:
Speaking about her avant-garde image, Lady Gaga admits in the interview: ‘When I wake up in the morning, I feel just like any other insecure 24-year-old girl, then I say, "... you're Lady Gaga, you get up and walk the walk today".’
So invested is she in her onstage persona, for the sake of her fans, Lady Gaga says she won't even hydrate during a performance.
‘I don't even drink water onstage in front of anybody, because I want them to focus on the fantasy of the music,’ she confessed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...#ixzz0rm2Egu9M
it just all seemed to fit together, the vast unfeeling universe, the finality of its destruction, and Lady Gaga owning up to the fantasy she is.
we all to a greater or lesser extent present a fantasy to others, its the stuff of life, not merely just the showcases here.
- nevergaveitathought
- 06-24-2010, 07:43 AM
- WTF
- 06-24-2010, 08:11 AM
You sound like you might need to change your screen name
- Doove
- 06-24-2010, 10:22 PM
- LynetteMarie
- 06-26-2010, 04:35 AM
Sounds like some of us have been watching the same network!
I enjoy watching the History Channel as well but unfortunately, I tend to watch rather late at late and get absolutely spooked by what I see. Spooked and saddened.
Although I have great faith in other areas of my life, I am also capable of thinking my own thoughts and sometimes I find myself overwhelmed by watching certain shows. We're all living in a material world that will burn up eventually, leaving [some of] us to wonder, what was/is the point?
The first thoughts I had reading the beginning of this thread related to a radio show I listened to just a few years ago and a poem I read in grammar school. (I know, I know...why have they been stored in my memory bank and triggered by this thread??)
First was the Dave, Shelly and Chainsaw talk radio show I used to listen to when I lived in San Diego. Dave would often be greeted by callers or emailers with "I love your show" to which he always responded, "I love yours too."
Not too earth shattering but the more I listened, the more I "got" what he was trying to say. We often put on a show as human beings, presenting that face we want the world to see, whether exaggerated versions of ourselves or even complete illusions (as performers such as Lady GaGa do and admit to doing, according to the article shared here.)
My second thought went back to a poem written by a high school drama student when I was in 4th or 5th grade. I know this was written by a gay teenage male who had recently come out, and back in my schooling days it was just becoming acceptable to be gay/bisexual. His poem was about putting on a performance during a musical at school and the closing line went something like:
Is the performance really ending
Or has it just begun?
Again, a statement on how so many people put on an act in life.
Yet, what scares me also is that when people become truly real and vulnerable, they are often looked down upon as being _____ insert adjective here. Weak, broken, weird, etc...
When I attended a holistic health school after college, one of the first things I was asked by an instructor was, "How are you?"
Me: Pretty good.
Him: What's that mean?
Me: Well....good.
Him: But what does "pretty good" mean to you?
(At that point I was practically crawling out of my skin, so uncomfortable with the idea that this man actually wanted to hear me tell the truth about how I was feeling. But he really did. And I thank him for helping me evolve.)
Okay so in real life, when people ask how you're doing, do you think they really care? And do you really want to open to up to them about your sick mother and your sprained ankle and the your car battery giving you problems or would you prefer to stick to a response of "Pretty good?" Whether some of us are more "real" or "comfortable" being ourselves than others, I wonder how many of us simply fake it just to prevent others from labeling us as "drama queens/kings?"
So, nevergaveitathought, I'm kinda' with you on those unsettling feelings. True, I have very strong faith in my beliefs, but there will always be that "ever-thinking" person who begins exploring many other ideas and concepts. From atheist to agnostic to Buddhist to Christian, I've studied many different beliefs/lack thereof. Heck, I could even share some ideas on all of us being part of one great big experiment...but that's perhaps for another thread/debate/private message.
Thanks for starting a great thread!
I enjoy watching the History Channel as well but unfortunately, I tend to watch rather late at late and get absolutely spooked by what I see. Spooked and saddened.
Although I have great faith in other areas of my life, I am also capable of thinking my own thoughts and sometimes I find myself overwhelmed by watching certain shows. We're all living in a material world that will burn up eventually, leaving [some of] us to wonder, what was/is the point?
The first thoughts I had reading the beginning of this thread related to a radio show I listened to just a few years ago and a poem I read in grammar school. (I know, I know...why have they been stored in my memory bank and triggered by this thread??)
First was the Dave, Shelly and Chainsaw talk radio show I used to listen to when I lived in San Diego. Dave would often be greeted by callers or emailers with "I love your show" to which he always responded, "I love yours too."
Not too earth shattering but the more I listened, the more I "got" what he was trying to say. We often put on a show as human beings, presenting that face we want the world to see, whether exaggerated versions of ourselves or even complete illusions (as performers such as Lady GaGa do and admit to doing, according to the article shared here.)
My second thought went back to a poem written by a high school drama student when I was in 4th or 5th grade. I know this was written by a gay teenage male who had recently come out, and back in my schooling days it was just becoming acceptable to be gay/bisexual. His poem was about putting on a performance during a musical at school and the closing line went something like:
Is the performance really ending
Or has it just begun?
Again, a statement on how so many people put on an act in life.
Yet, what scares me also is that when people become truly real and vulnerable, they are often looked down upon as being _____ insert adjective here. Weak, broken, weird, etc...
When I attended a holistic health school after college, one of the first things I was asked by an instructor was, "How are you?"
Me: Pretty good.
Him: What's that mean?
Me: Well....good.
Him: But what does "pretty good" mean to you?
(At that point I was practically crawling out of my skin, so uncomfortable with the idea that this man actually wanted to hear me tell the truth about how I was feeling. But he really did. And I thank him for helping me evolve.)
Okay so in real life, when people ask how you're doing, do you think they really care? And do you really want to open to up to them about your sick mother and your sprained ankle and the your car battery giving you problems or would you prefer to stick to a response of "Pretty good?" Whether some of us are more "real" or "comfortable" being ourselves than others, I wonder how many of us simply fake it just to prevent others from labeling us as "drama queens/kings?"
So, nevergaveitathought, I'm kinda' with you on those unsettling feelings. True, I have very strong faith in my beliefs, but there will always be that "ever-thinking" person who begins exploring many other ideas and concepts. From atheist to agnostic to Buddhist to Christian, I've studied many different beliefs/lack thereof. Heck, I could even share some ideas on all of us being part of one great big experiment...but that's perhaps for another thread/debate/private message.
Thanks for starting a great thread!
- Guest053011
- 06-26-2010, 11:17 AM
My two cents. This will be long, I have joked that if there were a religion that would take me as I am, I would join the priesthood. I also strongly believe in the possibility of Sacred Prostitution.
I am unsettled at the thought of organic life as we know it coming to an end. However, if that should come to pass, I can be at peace with the idea. This universe may come to an end, but I think there are things beyond, that we do not understand or may never understand or experience, and I'm fine with that.
And at the same time am comforted that for all the facts and theories science discovers, the universe continues to surprise, and that they really don't know that this "inevitable" conclusion is in fact the future of the universe.
I am not really unsettled by the "meaninglessness" of life. I've done a lot of soul searching, in religion, through those that practice faith-based living, through science and poetry.
Ultimately the "purpose" of the universe on it's grand scale doesn't really directly effect the microcosm of my life. So I feel there's no point in even thinking about it. When I do, it's with the same air as when I'm writing poetry, watching a play. It's whimsical. To take it seriously is like panicking over a butterfly in Africa, who's fluttering wing might cause a hurricane through a chain of events - these things are so vast and at the same time so intricate, that it will eat me alive. It is best to concern myself with the present - and that's part of the trick all faiths, prophet sand poets seem to agree on. If we can actually be present, then we can find peace.
I have also concluded that God doesn't provide meaning. It isn't handed to us like a pretty wrapped gift with bows and ribbons, for us to peel back the paper and gasp in awe and delight. That expectation is far too much like being a coddled spoiled child. In fact, I believe that the idea that God dictates purpose is very dangerous, as we try to assume what Divinity expects, and thinking we can interpret that is inherently flawed. It gives us permission to mistreat and force others because we think we have the answer that God holds - and that is simply impossible, foolish and detrimental to our fellow humans and all that lives on this earth.
It is our duty to build meaning. To go through this life with open heart and open mind so that we may learn, and interpret the information to ourselves. And with that knowledge and those experiences, it is our destiny to create meaning with our own hands and our own minds, within our own lifetime. Our purpose in the time we exist is to create meaning within our lives. And when people take this to heart, and work to make their life meaningful, to be good to fellow humans and nature, that builds a sort of "hive of mind", "collective subconsious", "greater meaning", because you have all these people, all these forces doing various meaningful things in different ways which ultimately combines unconsiously to one grand purpose, the betterment of our organic world and mankind. The only thngs we can expect to effect.
We spend far too much time telling people who they should be, how they should live, what they desire is right or wrong. I take an awful lot of abuse for suggesting that I can love what I do, love the men I am with and if not love them, love the oasis of time we create for each other. And I never quite understood how it so threatens the world of others, to the point that they feel the need to degrade, insult and harass.
Whether that means dying your hair purple, tattooing your body or walking down a beach naked, being sexual with someone of the same gender, believing in wearing the hijab or that magic is real... Too many seem to think there are set rules, and that society can only exist by those rules alone. We have not learned to accept that we all walk through life with a different experience, and that each of those experiences is valid, is enriching, and has meaning.
If we can accept that each life choice is sacred and should be respected, then whether your life is unorthadox or traditional, no one need to be afraid of being erased. All those things can exist at once.
I also find great comfort in knowing that the most brilliant minds to every grace this earth, whether they were poets or scientists, minds that could process information in a fashion that was freakishly beyond human capability, looked at all the information before them and always said "there is more".
I do not feel that it is appropriate to LIVE as an open and vulnerable human being 100% of the time. Those "masks" or "shows" we put forward are necessary and I'll go even further, are an important form of expression.
Our inner most selves are sacred - much like the box that hold the Holy Eucharist in a Catholic church. Those things are holy, and should be reserved for the right people and the right time. They should be accessed often and ever present in our mind, but are not to be treated with the disrespect of commonality and monotony.
I do indeed care when I say to someone "How are you?" but that doesn't mean they can load me down with their sorrows either. There are those who are welcome to unload the weight of their life on me, and they know it. However, I cannot handle that from everyone in my life. It would be unfair to me, as no human being can handle that. Indeed even those in the priesthoods of various faiths admit to feeling crippled by the weight of the world - Jesus has a great moment when he is chased into the caves seeking solitude. An excellent parable for what I am discussing here.
When I say "How are you?" I expect an honest simple answer. I also expect that there is no expectation for me to invest beyond the point that I feel comfortable. So if you say "I had a rough day" and I really want to invest, I will. I might have the emotional energy to do so. However if I do not, I will give my sympathies, I will listen, but I think it's selfish to demand more. You don't now where my mind is at the time of asking that, so to pressure for more investment then I freely give is wrong. I may have my own issues going on, and desire to keep them to myself, and be in need of space. There is a respectful balance between the daily caring of the people you come into contact with and the emotional investment you are able to make.
I also believe that public space is neutral ground. I don't think it's appropriate to walk down the street in overtly promiscuous clothing anymore then I think its appropriate to shriek bible passages from a street corner. I think those extremes are wonderful and have a place in the world, that they enrich the human experience. However, I think those things are for private enjoyment in venues that openly state that is their purpose, for people who freely choose to participate.
Pagans have what is called "Sacred Space". The idea is, that you can form a temple, anywhere at any given time. When you do so, it is as sacred as a Church, Mosque, Synagogue or other holy place. You have to learn how to create Sacred Space, and who is comfortable and able to handle that. This is where you pray, where you ponder, where you unload.
I am unsettled at the thought of organic life as we know it coming to an end. However, if that should come to pass, I can be at peace with the idea. This universe may come to an end, but I think there are things beyond, that we do not understand or may never understand or experience, and I'm fine with that.
And at the same time am comforted that for all the facts and theories science discovers, the universe continues to surprise, and that they really don't know that this "inevitable" conclusion is in fact the future of the universe.
I am not really unsettled by the "meaninglessness" of life. I've done a lot of soul searching, in religion, through those that practice faith-based living, through science and poetry.
Ultimately the "purpose" of the universe on it's grand scale doesn't really directly effect the microcosm of my life. So I feel there's no point in even thinking about it. When I do, it's with the same air as when I'm writing poetry, watching a play. It's whimsical. To take it seriously is like panicking over a butterfly in Africa, who's fluttering wing might cause a hurricane through a chain of events - these things are so vast and at the same time so intricate, that it will eat me alive. It is best to concern myself with the present - and that's part of the trick all faiths, prophet sand poets seem to agree on. If we can actually be present, then we can find peace.
I have also concluded that God doesn't provide meaning. It isn't handed to us like a pretty wrapped gift with bows and ribbons, for us to peel back the paper and gasp in awe and delight. That expectation is far too much like being a coddled spoiled child. In fact, I believe that the idea that God dictates purpose is very dangerous, as we try to assume what Divinity expects, and thinking we can interpret that is inherently flawed. It gives us permission to mistreat and force others because we think we have the answer that God holds - and that is simply impossible, foolish and detrimental to our fellow humans and all that lives on this earth.
It is our duty to build meaning. To go through this life with open heart and open mind so that we may learn, and interpret the information to ourselves. And with that knowledge and those experiences, it is our destiny to create meaning with our own hands and our own minds, within our own lifetime. Our purpose in the time we exist is to create meaning within our lives. And when people take this to heart, and work to make their life meaningful, to be good to fellow humans and nature, that builds a sort of "hive of mind", "collective subconsious", "greater meaning", because you have all these people, all these forces doing various meaningful things in different ways which ultimately combines unconsiously to one grand purpose, the betterment of our organic world and mankind. The only thngs we can expect to effect.
We spend far too much time telling people who they should be, how they should live, what they desire is right or wrong. I take an awful lot of abuse for suggesting that I can love what I do, love the men I am with and if not love them, love the oasis of time we create for each other. And I never quite understood how it so threatens the world of others, to the point that they feel the need to degrade, insult and harass.
Whether that means dying your hair purple, tattooing your body or walking down a beach naked, being sexual with someone of the same gender, believing in wearing the hijab or that magic is real... Too many seem to think there are set rules, and that society can only exist by those rules alone. We have not learned to accept that we all walk through life with a different experience, and that each of those experiences is valid, is enriching, and has meaning.
If we can accept that each life choice is sacred and should be respected, then whether your life is unorthadox or traditional, no one need to be afraid of being erased. All those things can exist at once.
I also find great comfort in knowing that the most brilliant minds to every grace this earth, whether they were poets or scientists, minds that could process information in a fashion that was freakishly beyond human capability, looked at all the information before them and always said "there is more".
I do not feel that it is appropriate to LIVE as an open and vulnerable human being 100% of the time. Those "masks" or "shows" we put forward are necessary and I'll go even further, are an important form of expression.
Our inner most selves are sacred - much like the box that hold the Holy Eucharist in a Catholic church. Those things are holy, and should be reserved for the right people and the right time. They should be accessed often and ever present in our mind, but are not to be treated with the disrespect of commonality and monotony.
I do indeed care when I say to someone "How are you?" but that doesn't mean they can load me down with their sorrows either. There are those who are welcome to unload the weight of their life on me, and they know it. However, I cannot handle that from everyone in my life. It would be unfair to me, as no human being can handle that. Indeed even those in the priesthoods of various faiths admit to feeling crippled by the weight of the world - Jesus has a great moment when he is chased into the caves seeking solitude. An excellent parable for what I am discussing here.
When I say "How are you?" I expect an honest simple answer. I also expect that there is no expectation for me to invest beyond the point that I feel comfortable. So if you say "I had a rough day" and I really want to invest, I will. I might have the emotional energy to do so. However if I do not, I will give my sympathies, I will listen, but I think it's selfish to demand more. You don't now where my mind is at the time of asking that, so to pressure for more investment then I freely give is wrong. I may have my own issues going on, and desire to keep them to myself, and be in need of space. There is a respectful balance between the daily caring of the people you come into contact with and the emotional investment you are able to make.
I also believe that public space is neutral ground. I don't think it's appropriate to walk down the street in overtly promiscuous clothing anymore then I think its appropriate to shriek bible passages from a street corner. I think those extremes are wonderful and have a place in the world, that they enrich the human experience. However, I think those things are for private enjoyment in venues that openly state that is their purpose, for people who freely choose to participate.
Pagans have what is called "Sacred Space". The idea is, that you can form a temple, anywhere at any given time. When you do so, it is as sacred as a Church, Mosque, Synagogue or other holy place. You have to learn how to create Sacred Space, and who is comfortable and able to handle that. This is where you pray, where you ponder, where you unload.
- WTF
- 06-27-2010, 10:07 AM
Read the obituaries.
I been doing it for decades.
It will put everything into perspective.
Never gave it a thought that one day I'd see mine.
But that's a changing, which for me is the meaning of life.
Everything changes, your thoughts today will not be your thoughts for tomorrow. Unless you are so full of yourself to think you have the meaning of life understood for anyone other than your self (and that thought too will change) . I do think vanity keeps some stuck from acknowledging their humanness. We are all human, we insult, degrade and die. Thank God we also do things that counterbalance those the perceived negative things we ALL do.
.
In Harijan, Gandhi has said: "In my search after truth I have discarded many ideas and learnt many new things… I am concerned with my readiness to obey the call of truth... when anybody finds any inconsistency between any two writings of mine... he would do well to choose the latter of the two."
http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/masters/mahatma-gandhi/making-mahatma.asp
I been doing it for decades.
It will put everything into perspective.
Never gave it a thought that one day I'd see mine.
But that's a changing, which for me is the meaning of life.
Everything changes, your thoughts today will not be your thoughts for tomorrow. Unless you are so full of yourself to think you have the meaning of life understood for anyone other than your self (and that thought too will change) . I do think vanity keeps some stuck from acknowledging their humanness. We are all human, we insult, degrade and die. Thank God we also do things that counterbalance those the perceived negative things we ALL do.
.
In Harijan, Gandhi has said: "In my search after truth I have discarded many ideas and learnt many new things… I am concerned with my readiness to obey the call of truth... when anybody finds any inconsistency between any two writings of mine... he would do well to choose the latter of the two."
http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/masters/mahatma-gandhi/making-mahatma.asp
- mufflover
- 06-27-2010, 10:50 AM
all of us can fall to melancholy....some of us more than others. I watched a remake of 'the beach' a few years ago...and while just another typical 'end of mankind' fictional show...it really threw me for a loop. ML
- pjorourke
- 06-27-2010, 01:09 PM
- charlestudor2005
- 06-27-2010, 02:04 PM
Every morning. And if I'm not listed, I get out of bed.Damn, PJ, you must have the paper boy well trained to deliver it right to your bed. Does he get any tips for that kind of service. If you wear the same kind of PJs (pun not intended) I do, you'll be ready for any kind of action.Originally Posted by pjorourke
- WTF
- 06-27-2010, 02:11 PM
Every morning. And if I'm not listed, I get out of bed.Reminds me of the short story about the gambler who sold his soul to be able to read tomorrows newspaper for racing results only to kneel over from a heart attack upon seeing his own obit the first time he opened tomorrows news!
- Katy Alexander
- 06-28-2010, 10:09 AM
[quote=Lauren Summerhill;383143]
I do indeed care when I say to someone "How are you?" but that doesn't mean they can load me down with their sorrows either. There are those who are welcome to unload the weight of their life on me, and they know it. However, I cannot handle that from everyone in my life. It would be unfair to me, as no human being can handle that. .quote]
Well said, and also very smart.
Nevergaveitathought, you may want to stop watching the history channel
.Pick up that remote, and switch over to TLC where tots compete for tiaras,
and you will just be happy to know that you are not one of those people
who just spent the last nine months with no clue that they were pregnant until they suddenly give birth on their front lawn,toilet, or the new boy friends boat
.
Ignorance can be bliss
I do indeed care when I say to someone "How are you?" but that doesn't mean they can load me down with their sorrows either. There are those who are welcome to unload the weight of their life on me, and they know it. However, I cannot handle that from everyone in my life. It would be unfair to me, as no human being can handle that. .quote]
Well said, and also very smart.
Nevergaveitathought, you may want to stop watching the history channel
.Pick up that remote, and switch over to TLC where tots compete for tiaras, and you will just be happy to know that you are not one of those people who just spent the last nine months with no clue that they were pregnant until they suddenly give birth on their front lawn,toilet, or the new boy friends boat.Ignorance can be bliss
- WTF
- 06-28-2010, 10:16 AM
[quote=Becky;387036]
How about ya'll not asking "How are you?" if ya really don't care!
Problem solved.
Now on to more important matters....they are showing natural birth on your fav show? Ok, I'm in.
those people[/I]
Ignorance can be bliss Originally Posted by
Nevergaveitathought, you may want to stop watching the history channel:weeping: .Pick up that remote, and switch over to TLC where tots compete for tiaras,:trampoline: and you will just be happy to know that you are not one of [I
How about ya'll not asking "How are you?" if ya really don't care!
Problem solved.Now on to more important matters....they are showing natural birth on your fav show? Ok, I'm in.
- nevergaveitathought
- 06-28-2010, 12:08 PM
[quote=WTF;387055]
how am i, you ask? by the grace of God i am.. or by the most inexplicable quirk of happenstance i am..you see there was a something that exploded..not sure where that something came from..well anyway thats how i am
the word "how" is about the strangest word in the english language...
How about ya'll not asking "How are you?" Originally Posted by Becky
how am i, you ask? by the grace of God i am.. or by the most inexplicable quirk of happenstance i am..you see there was a something that exploded..not sure where that something came from..well anyway thats how i am
- WTF
- 06-28-2010, 01:03 PM
[quote=nevergaveitathought;3873 71]
You've given it more thought than you're letting on!
Do that with GB!
LOL
the word "how" is about the strangest word in the english language...
how am i, you ask? by the grace of God i am.. or by the most inexplicable quirk of happenstance i am..you see there was a something that exploded..not sure where that something came from..well anyway thats how i am Originally Posted by WTF
You've given it more thought than you're letting on!
Do that with GB!
- Katy Alexander
- 06-28-2010, 02:51 PM
[quote=WTF;387055]
I just think that some days all you can handle is The Readers Digest version of how they are doing lol.
Now is that natural child birth with women who actually knew they were pregnant??
Edit Great now it looks like I am talking to myself again.
We care,
How about ya'll not asking "How are you?" if ya really don't care!
I just think that some days all you can handle is The Readers Digest version of how they are doing lol.Now is that natural child birth with women who actually knew they were pregnant??
Edit Great now it looks like I am talking to myself again.