government shuts down

No side has "lost" yet. There is an impasse.

And it isn't just about the Medicaid cuts. It is just as much about extending the subsidies for the Affordable Care Act marketplaces. You know, those credits that make make health insurance cheaper for millions of Americans? Millions. As in 24 Million. People. Most of them in Red states that voted for Trump.

KFF estimates the average premium will go up 114 percent. Pricing a lot of people out. Doesn't matter who they voted for.

Speaking of percentages, also according to KFF, 78 percent of voters across the political spectrum are in favor of maintaining these subsidies.

Those all expired as of September 30. And the Republican controlled Congress had all fucking year to do something about it. And they didn't. And here we are. And there ain't no way that anyone believes their bullshit about "just pass a clean bill and we will deal with this other stuff later." They didn't deal with it before. Why would anyone believe they will now? Originally Posted by Eaton Beaver

Those subsidies were supposed to go away. YOU and YOUR side kept preaching that costs were going to go down so much. Oops. Costs have doubled since Obozocare got rammed through. People can't afford those garbage plans without subsidies because there's no competition in many areas. The Dems didn't help the problem, they created a bunch of dependents who rely on the government to steal money from others to pay for their stuff. People are rightly fully blaming the Dems for this. Doesn't help your cause when Dems go on national television and ADMIT they shut this down over free health care for illegals.

Yeah. Ok.

This article from Rolling Stone seems to contradict everything Salty and the usual MAGA Republicans are spewing:


House Speaker Mike Johnson continued to blame Democrats for the government shutdown, using misleading Republican talking points that insist that Democratic leadership is pushing to fund health care for undocumented immigrants.


Johnson said Sunday on CBS's Face the Nation that Democrats "want to spend $1.5 trillion, and they want to return hard-working taxpayer dollars to fund health care for illegal aliens. It is in their bill. Go to speaker.gov and see it for yourself. Page 57, Section 2141. They're using this for political games, and it is shameful, and real people are getting hurt."


"I have looked at that text," host Margaret Brennan replied. "It doesn't explicitly say what you are indicating."


As the shut down over these issues approaches its second week, according to a Washington Post poll, nearly half of Americans blame Trump and the Republicans for the government shut down - with 47 percent blaming the GOP and president - while less than a third (30 percent) believe congressional Democrats are responsible for it.






We went to the Speaker's site, which links to the Democratic proposal. The specific section Johnson mentioned - section 2141 on page 57 - repeals the changes to Medicaid made by Trump and the Republicans' One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA), which Johnson admitted.


"It's a compelling talking point to say that Democrats want to provide health care to undocumented immigrants, but it's just not true in terms of the cuts they're trying to reverse," Larry Levitt, executive vice president for health policy at KFF, a nonprofit and nonpartisan health policy information organization, told the Associated Press.




It's important to note that undocumented immigrants broadly do not qualify for Medicaid, Affordable Care Act subsidies, or other federally-funded health care coverage.


"Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federally-funded health coverage," Drishti Pillai, director of Immigrant Health Policy at KFF, wrote. "The GOP's Big Beautiful Bill didn't change that. Overturning the health care provisions in the law won't either."


Further, under the OBBBA, many lawfully present immigrants who are eligible for Medicaid - such as asylum seekers, refugees, and survivors of human trafficking - will be rendered ineligible for the program in 2026 thanks to a section of the law titled "Alien Medicaid eligibility." If that provision stays in place, then next year, approximately 1.4 million immigrants lawfully in the U.S. will lose health coverage because Republicans severely restricted access to lawful permanent residents, Cuban and Haitian immigrants, and citizens of the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau. Democrats are pressing to reverse that.


Johnson also claimed on NBC's Meet the Press: "What the Democrats are demanding is that illegal aliens that care for them in an emergency room should be reimbursed at a higher rate."






Hospitals may be reimbursed for emergency room care given to undocumented immigrants due to a Reagan-era law (the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act) that requires emergency rooms provide screening exams and stabilization care to everyone who comes through their doors seeking care, regardless of immigration status. Under the OBBBA, those reimbursements will decrease. Hospitals would still be obligated to deliver care to everyone, but they will not receive the same amount as they would have before OBBBA, also known as H.R. 1.




"H.R. 1 reduces the federal matching funds for states for some of this emergency care," explained Leonardo Cuello, research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy's Center for Children and Families. "This provision does not actually change coverage for immigrants, and indeed the CBO scored it as having no impact on coverage, because hospitals must still provide the health care, and states must still pay them for the health care, it's just that the federal government will pay a smaller share of the cost. In other words, it's just a cut to federal funding for states to reimburse providers furnishing emergency services (which is still required)."


Democrats are also insisting on extending federal subsidies for people who purchase coverage through the ACA marketplace. If Republicans get their way, and those subsidies are lost, then ACA premiums could more than double. An estimated 10 million Americans, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, could lose their health insurance between the GOP's Medicaid cuts and the loss of subsidies.

...The Dems didn't help the problem, they created a bunch of dependents who rely on the government to steal money from others to pay for their stuff. People are rightly fully blaming the Dems for this. Doesn't help your cause when Dems go on national television and ADMIT they shut this down over free health care for illegals. Originally Posted by Lantern2814

Same as it ever was. But it wasn't actually Obozocare. It was Hillary Care. The House had passed a Veterans health improvement bill. When it got to the Senate, they deleted every single word and pasted in thousands of pages of HillaryCare from the 1990s. Does anyone not remember Hillary on her secret panel back in the day, while Monica was under the desk in the other room?!?

While we're strolling Memory-less Lane, let's take a gander at May 3, 2024, when the O'Biden was at the tippy-top of his game, working those long hours, making those hard choices, out working everyone else in the government and was sharp as a tack. Everyone said so. Well... that is until 1 single month later: at the Presidential debate heard 'round the world - loud and clear.

Joe Biden Opens Obamacare to DACA Illegal Aliens as 25M Americans Uninsured

by John Binder 3 May 2024

President Joe Biden is opening the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, to illegal aliens enrolled in former President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program.

On Friday, Biden issued a final rule that will open Obamacare rolls to some DACA illegal aliens enrolled in the program. Obama first created the DACA program via executive order, shielding more than a million illegal aliens from deportation through the years.

Previously, Center for Immigration Studies researchers estimated that the cost of opening Obamacare and Medicaid rolls to illegal aliens would cost American taxpayers about $4,600 per illegal alien.

At this rate, Obamacare and Medicaid for DACA illegal aliens has the potential to cost American taxpayers roughly $2.8 billion every year. At the same time, more than 25 million Americans are expected to be uninsured today.

Biden said in a statement:

Nearly twelve years ago, President Obama and I announced the DACA program to allow our young people to live and work in the only country they’ve called home. Since then, DACA has provided more than 800,000 Dreamers with the ability to work lawfully, pursue an education, and contribute their immense talents to make our communities better and stronger. [Emphasis added]

I’m proud of the contributions of Dreamers to our country and committed to providing Dreamers the support they need to succeed. That’s why I’ve previously directed the Department of Homeland Security to take all appropriate actions to “preserve and fortify” DACA. And that’s why today we are taking this historic step to ensure that DACA recipients have the same access to health care through the Affordable Care Act as their neighbors. [Emphasis added]

Biden had first announced the initiative to score DACA illegal aliens tax breaks via Obamacare in April of last year. At the time, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas praised the move.

Sens. J.D. Vance (R-OH) and Josh Hawley (R-MO), as well as several House Republicans, had lobbied Biden to drop the plan last year, but the administration moved forward anyway.

In his 2012 State of the Union Address, Obama vowed to Americans that illegal aliens would not be eligible for Obamacare, to which Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) shouted, “You lie!”...

Pepperidge Farms remembers.


Now Dems, tell us again that ya'll don't want to fund healthcare for the world.

The government needs to not only gtfo of health insurance but also healthcare delivery. Their involvement in both is why costs are so exorbitant. There’s no reason a young, healthy person should not be able to by a high deductible catastrophic plan for $50 a month or so. Insurance companies would love to write those policies but can’t because big brother mandates a bunch of stupid, unnecessary coverage.

This was a thing back in the day. Employers could offer “major medical” for their employees for a reasonable price. When you took a kid to the doctor with an ear infection or whatnot, he checked it out, wrote a script and you paid for the office visit yourself. If he/she/you wiped out on a bike and broke a couple bones or got some other big, expensive concern the coverage kicked in. Today’s plans are like car insurance that covers tires, brakes and oil changes. Of course the prices are ridiculous, they have to be or the insurers would go out of business.

Those subsidies were supposed to go away. YOU and YOUR side kept preaching that costs were going to go down so much.... Originally Posted by Lantern2814

That they were supposed to sunset is not the point.

78 percent of the fucking electorate wants them to remain.

Congress is supposed to react to changing times.

And please, what is it with this "YOU" and "YOUR SIDE" bullshit? It just makes you look like you only care about pissing people off, not about making an actual point. And especially in this case, it isn't even accurate.

78 percent of people support these subsidies. Which means it is a fuck ton of people from "YOUR SIDE" also.

Rolling Stone article much more relevant to current activities and government shut down.

...news flash for you: Illegals are not allowed healthcare. Originally Posted by Precious_b

The problems the republicans have are... they started with a lie - democrats want to preserve health care for illegals. Only the MAGA dummy crowd believes that... Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Illegals don’t get and the democrats aren’t asking for illegals to receive federal dollars. What you’re repeating is simply a lie. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

From the 2019 Democrat Presidential debates:

Is 2019 2025? Thought not. Just because they wanted that to be the case back then and some may still want it to be case in 2025, the law says something different, as I’ve point out numerous times.

Only a fool would conflate the two and think they made some grand point. Or a liar. And we know what I think about you and what you put in your posts.

You used to at least post sensical arguments. Now you’re no better than Salty.

Is 2019 2025? Thought not. Just because they wanted that to be the case back then and some may still want it to be case in 2025, the law says something different, as I’ve point out numerous times.

Only a fool would conflate the two and think they made some grand point. Or a liar. And we know what I think about you and what you put in your posts.

You used to at least post sensical arguments. Now you’re no better than Salty. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Take a deep breath. I didn't post any arguments. I merely posted a video.

So... are you saying if the same question was asked of the same ten (10) Democrats today, NONE of them would raise their hands? And if so, what changed? The same federal prohibitions in effect today were also on the books back in 2019.

The state of California is spending $8.5 billion a year to provide healthcare to illegal immigrants. That's a fact. I hate to blow your "no federal money is involved" argument out of the water, but you might want to look into how the Biden folks loosened all the rules regarding how & for what federal Medicaid funds can be used. Do you really think it's impossible to launder fed reimbursements by calling them something else? If so, I have a bridge to sell you in Baton Rouge.

Have you never heard the old adage "Money is fungible"?

Here's a good read for you, mate:

https://nypost.com/2025/10/02/opinio...s-6-4-billion/

The enormous and open-ended discretion Medicaid gives states to claim federal funding makes it hard for the feds to ensure that the program’s expenditures are reserved for its intended purposes.

Have you never heard the old adage "Money is fungible"? Originally Posted by lustylad

I could here the google search from over here...

lol

Leftists think the voters are idiots and don't understand how the medicare money is used.

The state of California is spending $8.5 billion a year to provide healthcare to illegal immigrants. That's a fact. I hate to blow your "no federal money is involved" argument out of the water, but you might want to look into how the Biden folks loosened all the rules regarding how & for what federal Medicaid funds can be used. Do you really think it's impossible to launder fed reimbursements by calling them something else? If so, I have a bridge to sell you in Baton Rouge.

Have you never heard the old adage "Money is fungible"?

Here's a good read for you, mate:

https://nypost.com/2025/10/02/opinio...s-6-4-billion/ Originally Posted by lustylad

Based on his posts in this thread, Blackman may now actually agree with you and other board members on this, if he reads the New York Post article.

That they were supposed to sunset is not the point.

78 percent of the fucking electorate wants them to remain.

Congress is supposed to react to changing times.

And please, what is it with this "YOU" and "YOUR SIDE" bullshit? It just makes you look like you only care about pissing people off, not about making an actual point. And especially in this case, it isn't even accurate.

78 percent of people support these subsidies. Which means it is a fuck ton of people from "YOUR SIDE" also. Originally Posted by Eaton Beaver

Maybe actually research something. It IS the left who is crying about giving free health care to illegals. If the truth pisses you off, that tells us all we need to know. And don't even start the tired, "illegals aren't eligible" crap. That doesn't mean anything. So in every case, people who aren't eligible for whatever the benefit is aren't getting those benefits?

...78 percent of the fucking electorate wants them to remain... Originally Posted by Eaton Beaver

The majority of Actual Americans voted for a convicted felon, who ran on a platform to end that lunacy and won, thus creating a new minority in the process. Lacking a mandate and relevancy, this new minority is unable to grasp their irrelevancy.

States are sovereign and may spend ITS money however it likes. But you can continue to conflate all you like. I’ve worked in healthcare as counsel for a large hospital system and the money is less fungible than you think. But that’s neither here nor there.

The PEOPLE continue to rightlyblame the republicans and Trump. I believe it’ll remain that way. No matter how much Pravda Fox tries to point the narrative at Dems, and no matter how much whining comes from my buddy Mike and his lord and savior Trump, the PEOPLE aren’t buying - “the illegals”. Hence, I suspect the republicans will fold. They’ll accept the Dems terms and claim that illegals won’t receive the money and call that a win (even though it’s exactly what’s being offered).

I would love to see the federal govt not take in money to only redistribute it back to the states. Block grants and fed/state combined programs have always been a bad idea that subsidizes poor states (one in which I live) with money from more wealthy states (three of which I’ve lived in Texas, Virginia and Maryland). But that’s the system we have and that we must continue to work with.