If this is not insurrection . . .

Addressing the thread's title:
Are there good insurrections and bad insurrections? What if a person is crazy or misled by others? Should he still go to jail for participating in an insurrection?

Well whether or not an insurrection is good or bad depends on which side of it you are on and whether or not to your side wins. The winners write the history. In my view, the American Revolution was good and the Civil Wr was bad as far as insurrections go. But then I grew up in. the north so it could be that my view is slanted by being on the winning side for both.

Whether a person is crazy or mislead? The Kenedy assins were b both. of them either crazy or mislead. The guy they caught for MLK's killing math n to have actually don it it is said. The guy who shot Charlie Kirk was deeply confused to say the least. he guy who shot P:resident Reagan was actually certified as crazy and incarcerated in a mental institution.

Should they have been prosecuted? the MKL guy aside, I think so.

Regarding the events of Jan 6th: It can be argued that the just the act of entering the Capitol building without authorization is an act of insurrection. There is video of people actually occupying the legislative chambers and offices.

However, many folks were held in isolation without access to an attorney for months, their location unknown to their families . . . and their only offense was that they had crossed the police barriers into the property.

It is my view that many Jan 6th actors did not commit any offense that justified such severe treatment.

Let us refresh our memories.

- Trump sent in troops (Oregon National Guard) to Portlandia.
Why? To protect the Federal troops and buildings from terrorists.

- After some quick Judge shopping, Portlandia was able to get a Judge to say: Trump can't send Oregon troops to Portlandia. Case closed.

- So Trump said: OK-fine and sent in troops from other states, like Texas.

- But the Judge said: Nope, again. Can't do that either. Whew! He averted yet another Constitutional crisis, like the Lying, Dog Faced, Pony Soldier that he is! Case closed!!

- Trump appealed to the 9th circuit, likely expecting it to get rejected and go on to the Supreme Court.

Short AI primer on the 9th circuit:

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has the largest geographic jurisdiction of any federal circuit court and considers the most immigration appeals, making it the most appealed circuit in the United States due to its vast scope and inclusion of California.

• Its decisions are highly influential in immigration law, affecting a large number of cases across its jurisdiction.
  
• Exercises jurisdiction over Alaska, Arizona, California, Guam, Hawaii, Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Nevada, Northern Mariana Islands, and Washington.
  
• The Ninth Circuit handles by far the most immigration appeals of any federal circuit court, a fact attributed to its extensive geographic reach and the inclusion of California.
• As of October 9, 2025, the Ninth Circuit remains the most active circuit in terms of the volume of appeals, particularly in civil immigration matters.

- And then the world changed. Total pole swapping event level schtuff. Gravity ceased to exist and the dinosaurs came back to roam the Earth sort of change.

JUST IN: 9th Circuit panel lifts TRO judge issued against federalization & deployment of Oregon National Guard in Portland for ICE security. Administrative stay. Args on longer stay set for tomorrow. 3-0. Graber/R.Nelson/Bade (Clinton/Trump/Trump). Doc: https://t.co/h8r82sI5Fb

— Josh Gerstein (@joshgerstein) October 8, 2025

Dunno 'bout anyone else, but a President this focused, determined and driven, with no quit in him to enforce our National immigration laws - is exactly what I voted for.

Short AI primer on the 9th circuit:
- And then the world changed. Total pole swapping event level schtuff. Gravity ceased to exist and the dinosaurs came back to roam the Earth sort of change. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

I think the 9th lifted the TRO so they could insure Oregon troops deploy (which I'm sure they have back channels to the Gov.) rather than Texas or some other Red state would not give any operational info to the State govt.

There's a political plot afoot, the 9th just didn't suddenly come to their senses.

Ordering officers to stand down and not assist ICE officers who were being assaulted, attacking federal officers and property, ramming ICE vehicles, the list goes on as to exactly why this is an insurrection. Almost 80% of people WANT criminal illegals removed. So once again, the left is on the wrong side of an 80-20 issue

Ordering officers to stand down and not assist ICE officers who were being assaulted, attacking federal officers and property, ramming ICE vehicles, the list goes on as to exactly why this is an insurrection. Almost 80% of people WANT criminal illegals removed. So once again, the left is on the wrong side of an 80-20 issue Originally Posted by Lantern2814

Ordering local police to not assist federal authorities performing federal duties is not insurrection.

I don’t see any reference to local police standing by while federal authorities or property is being assaulted.

If the feds wanted the cooperation of the local police then maybe it would be a good idea to ask for their assistance rather than trying to intimidate and defund their cities.

Maybe the problem is that Trump and Stephen Miller brought this upon themselves.

Merge 2 Threads same topic.

I don’t see any reference to local police standing by while federal authorities or property is being assaulted. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

If that’s the case, you’re purposefully keeping your eyes closed.

https://nypost.com/2025/10/05/us-new...of-protesters/

Since biomed merged our threads, I assume it's OK to discuss January 6 and insurrections in general here.

Whether a person is crazy or mislead? The Kenedy assins were b both. of them either crazy or mislead. The guy they caught for MLK's killing math n to have actually don it it is said. The guy who shot Charlie Kirk was deeply confused to say the least. he guy who shot P:resident Reagan was actually certified as crazy and incarcerated in a mental institution. Originally Posted by ICU 812

My question, could you say that more generally about groups of people, specifically the January 6 protestors who entered the Capitol in 2021, and Antifa in 2020? They were more misled than crazy, but perhaps a little of both. That's one of the main reasons that I'm not too worried about insurrections from the right or the left. Only a very small minority of Americans are going to get in peoples' faces and tell them to shut the fuck up, like Antifa, or try to stop government proceedings, like the Capitol intruders. And, contrary to what the MSM pushes, most of them aren't homicidal maniacs either. As I mentioned somewhere, you can only pin one homicide, out of 20,000 a year, on Antifa, and none on the January 6 group.

Regarding the events of Jan 6th: It can be argued that the just the act of entering the Capitol building without authorization is an act of insurrection. There is video of people actually occupying the legislative chambers and offices.

However, many folks were held in isolation without access to an attorney for months, their location unknown to their families . . . and their only offense was that they had crossed the police barriers into the property.

It is my view that many Jan 6th actors did not commit any offense that justified such severe treatment. Originally Posted by ICU 812

I did a little research on the subject back when we were discussing the QAnon Shaman. He's the only example I could find of someone who didn't harass police and who didn't destroy property who got stuck with a long sentence. ChatGPT gave me about 25 or 30 names of people who fell into that category, and from memory none got over 60 days in the slammer. Some got probated sentences that were much longer. They really stuck it to the poor Shaman though. Still I agree with you that the people who did no more than trespass were treated worse than they should have been.

If that’s the case, you’re purposefully keeping your eyes closed.

https://nypost.com/2025/10/05/us-new...of-protesters/ Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I guess that I don’t follow the same news sources that you do because I haven’t read anything about this incident.

After doing some basic research It appears to be an issue of conflicting priorities and miscommunications. This just reinforces my original point. Trump and Stephen Miller want the fight. If Trump and Miller weren’t Authoritarian jackholes and were willing to compromise with others I’m sure they could work hand in hand with the Chicago police and the Illinois governor.

But that’s not what they want.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/...border-patrol/

The resulting internet furor to the computer message, attributed to Hein and quickly picked up among right-wing social media commentators, highlighted a tricky balance that CPD leaders must strike in keeping with Chicago’s self-declared sanctuary city status: officers may not assist federal immigration authorities with their operations, as dictated by the Illinois TRUST Act and Chicago’s welcoming city ordinance, but are still obligated to respond to enforce the law and respond to potential illegal action.

Snelling said the department was conducting an after-action evaluation about Saturday’s events and said “there are some things we can work on” regarding communication in those situations, without elaborating.

...There's a political plot afoot, the 9th just didn't suddenly come to their senses. Originally Posted by texassapper

100% !!

It is interesting to note that, while there may be several-tomany instances of progressive politicians such as mayors and governors who may be characterized as insurrectionists by their actions, . . .the leftists on this forum cannily point to the events of Jan 6th, 2020 for such an act on the right. And in my view, there was no directive from any Republican office holder to violently storm the Capitol building..


Jan 6th has been directed ad nausium here and elsewhere. During President Trump p's four years out of office, there were no other such acts from the right.

Yet in the present, there are continuous acts of resistance to federal efforts to identify foreign nationals and return them to their country of origin. On the ground, these acts are often violence directed at federal agents. Ramming an other vehicle can be construed as vehicular assault.

At the level of suits in offices, his resistance is not confined to political speeches by progressive office holders. Opposition is conducted through executive actions on the part of mayors and govoners.

No one on the right is storming anything anywhere today. N ol one on the right is attacking local law enforcement officers , nor are they taking direct action against liberal judges, (though that house fire is still under investigation).

No.The events of January 6th, 2020 are five years ago and not repeated. Anyone involved has already been dealt with legally. Re-hashing Jan 6th is a red herring and not productive.

In the context of the original thread on the current insurrection, references to Jan 6th are in the same school of argumentation as the previously disparaged "What- Aboutism".

I guess that I don’t follow the same news sources that you do because I haven’t read anything about this incident... Originally Posted by txdot-guy

See... that is pretty much the point in regards to "your" news sources and reporters. Though I tend to think of them more as narrative regurgitators or programing procurators.

Conversely, there is another thread around here about "ICE Barbie". Similarly, I had never heard that term and after some research, I now know why: it's so childish and without any merit or intellect. If anything, I would have most likely run in to the term in a comedy sketch or a Disney movie.

But... the difference between the two examples is simply: The Money Hunny.

White House Reveals Over $100 MILLION in Taxpayer Cash and Laundered Democrat Donations Funneled to Antifa-Linked Orgs and “Protest Networks”
by Jim Hᴏft Oct. 9, 2025

...Seamus Bruner:
“We found a network of NGOs. It’s not just the Soros network — the Open Society network — it’s other funding networks: the Arabella funding network, the Tides funding network, Neville Roy Singham and his network, and foreign cash. It’s also big left-wing funders. Some of them are not even citizens of this country — Mr. Hansjörg Wyss of Switzerland.

They’re pouring money into this entire ecosystem. So I want to share three money facts with you about what we call Riot, Inc.
Number one: like any corporation, Riot, Inc. has many divisions.

It doesn’t just have the Antifa “boots-on-the-ground” division — it has PR divisions, marketing divisions, and a very well-funded legal division to get these “boots on the ground” back on the streets as quickly as possible.

But it does have those investors that I mentioned.

Number two: we have identified dozens of radical organizations — not just the decentralized Antifa groups — but dozens of radical organizations that have received more than $100 million from the Riot, Inc. investors. These would be the lawyer groups, the advocacy groups that label good, honest Americans as “fascists,” etc.

And then, number three — I think the most shocking thing — we found that more than $100 million in U.S. taxpayer funding has flowed into these funding networks, including at least $4 million directly to these groups themselves.

Not just Antifa types. There was an event in Atlanta called “Stop Cop City.” Over 60 rioters were charged with domestic terrorism. These groups received money for that — from both the billionaire class and taxpayer funds.

One other thing — this money also helps fund decentralized crowdfunding platforms. These are the ways Antifa, the John Brown Gun Club of Elm Fork (which had links to the attack on the ICE facility), and the Socialist Rifle Association receive money.

And just because they don’t have LLCs or EIN numbers doesn’t mean they can’t get paid. Some of these crowdfunding platforms are funded by this network we call Riot, Inc.

So again, I want to thank you for your leadership — for the whole Cabinet’s leadership on this. We’re going to keep following the money and appreciate everything you’re doing, sir.”...

So what's the problem?!?
I don't give a rat's pahtoot about Jr High School level name calling.

But I get very concerned when internal, external and my tax dollars are funding an organization that is counter to our well being extrajudicially.

...There's a political plot afoot, the 9th just didn't suddenly come to their senses. Originally Posted by texassapper

So now we know the game plan. Appears the below happened in-between the 1st Judge swatting at Trump over deploying the Oregon NG in Portlandia and the 9th circuit allowing it, but still not allowing non-Oregon NG troops.

Oregon National Guard Chief Brig. General Vows to “Protect Protesters” Targeting ICE Facilities — Disobeying a Lawful Order from the Commander-in-Chief
by Jim Hᴏft Oct. 10, 2025

Oregon National Guard Chief Brigadier General Alan R. Gronewold is facing mounting backlash after declaring his troops would be tasked with protecting protesters at federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facilities, a direct contradiction to the orders of President Donald Trump.

The week-old remarks, made before an Oregon Senate subcommittee, resurfaced on social media this week as a federal appeals court weighs whether Trump can deploy the Guard to Portland to quell ongoing anti-ICE protests.

During an appearance last week before the Oregon Senate’s Veterans and Emergency Preparedness Subcommittee, General Gronewold attempted to reassure state lawmakers about what the National Guard’s role would be if federalized under Title 10 orders.

“I don’t want to speculate on what level of training they will receive or what they will be authorized to perform as far as rules for the use of force. The Title X headquarters will provide that training to them.

It is my understanding, however, that protective crowd control will be one of the things they’re trained on, and I will provide my advice to the Title X commander. The Oregon National Guard men and women serve two purposes: one, to defend America, and two, to protect Oregonians.

So, by serving in this mission, they will be protecting any protesters at the ICE facility. That’s my desire.

Now, to answer your question — “full force” is not a doctrinal term that the Army uses, so I’m not sure exactly what that means, and I don’t want to speculate as to what level of force they will be allowed to use.”...

Imma guess he does not want to interfere with the terrorist-protesters playing tag in the park.

So then, no one has an example for insurrection on the right except for Jan 6th?

C'mon now. This is a merged thread. All acts of insurrection have been deemed to be on-topic.

What else ya got?