Another quagmire in the Middle East…..

how does anyone attack Iran without having a plan to deal with the Strait of Hormuz? effing insanity..

Trump has egg on his face with respect to the UK. first it's "you're too late to the party," then it's "pretty please with sugar on top send help to the Strait of Hormuz"..

typical Trump chaos..

any of you military experts, what would it take to actually secure the Strait of Hormuz? several destroyers? a carrier strike group or two? a complete conquest and occupation of Iran?

how does anyone attack Iran without having a plan to deal with the Strait of Hormuz? effing insanity..

Trump has egg on his face with respect to the UK. first it's "you're too late to the party," then it's "pretty please with sugar on top send help to the Strait of Hormuz"..

typical Trump chaos..

any of you military experts, what would it take to actually secure the Strait of Hormuz? several destroyers? a carrier strike group or two? a complete conquest and occupation of Iran? Originally Posted by pxmcc

More depth to the quagmire….Trump had lost control of the Staits entirely, and countries are negotiating with Iran directly.


How Iran defied Trump threats to emerge as Strait of Hormuz gatekeeper

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/...muz-gatekeeper

The longer we stay in this mess Trump caused, the deeper the quagmire will get.

elg…

As France’s lead general said “joining the US’s effort in Iran would be like buying a ticket on the Titanic after hit the iceberg”.

Could not be better stated.

Germany says this is not NATOs war. So I guess that’s a polite way of saying “kick rocks” to Trump. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Germany is not going to fight Israels war for them but Biden and Trump are willing. That's what Americans don't understand.

Article Five says an attack on one is an attack on all. Turkey and Cyprus got missile attacks. You stickers for legalese have to acknowledge that that was an attack on NATO.
Now, do we NEED the support of Germany? Not really but you want to share the burden such as it is now. That way everyone recognizes that they have skin in the game. And they can't come back later like democrats do and say we were against this the whole time. Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

We're seeing that the whole Article 5 thing is a joke. Turkey is not going to fight Israel's war for them against Iran even if Iran sent a single drone or missle their way. The whole NATO vs. BRICS World War is very real and it's in high gear. It's time like these that will bring out the very best or the very worst in people. Expect chaos to unfold with another flashbulb-like moment to occur in the world that will rival Pearl Harbor or 911 soon. It's what the elites want who control the world.

More depth to the quagmire….Trump had lost control of the Staits entirely, and countries are negotiating with Iran directly.


How Iran defied Trump threats to emerge as Strait of Hormuz gatekeeper

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/...muz-gatekeeper

The longer we stay in this mess Trump caused, the deeper the quagmire will get.

elg… Originally Posted by elghund

I'll argue that Netanyahu caused this mess more than Trump. Don't worry though because any incoming Democrat will just continue what Trump is doing and lick the boots of Israel.

Talking about NATO rules of engagement is getting off track.

Trump had good intentions,but his objectives are not being obtained. He babbles about he won the war - very far from accurate.

- there has not been a regime change, and is not likely
- the intent of Iran to obtain nuclear weapons is still there no matter what Trump does
- Trump has managed to get oil prices to $ 110 per barrel
- his requests and reasons to get Allies to help are far out
- just a short time ago Trump made many statements about taking over Greenland which belongs to one
of our Allies


Who knows the final outcome.....but Trump has managed to make a mess of this

...any of you military experts, what would it take to actually secure the Strait of Hormuz? several destroyers? a carrier strike group or two? a complete conquest and occupation of Iran? Originally Posted by pxmcc

I'm not a military expert, but this guy is:

Retired Rear Adm. Mark Montgomery, who has commanded a carrier strike group, recently laid out what a Hormuz operation might look like. First, continue to degrade to a “militarily manageable risk” the missiles, mines, drones and unmanned surface combatants that could threaten U.S. forces and tankers. Second, maintain “an unblinking eye that looks 50 miles on either side of the Strait and 100 miles back.”

Third, keep “four or eight aircraft persistently overhead” during convoy operations, equipped with Advanced Precision Kill Weapon Systems, “a cheap rocket—$25,000—that is extremely effective against Shahed drones.” Fourth, have “armed helos” ready to attack small boats that emerge.

Fifth, deploy 10-14 Aegis destroyers, whose air defenses make them “the perfect escort ship.” These surface combatants first need to be brought into place, and allies could join later.

This is no easy mission, and “militarily manageable risk” won’t be comforting to Americans or energy markets if this goes sideways. But Iran doesn’t hold all the cards. Its action in Hormuz could force Mr. Trump to see the war through, which is bad news for the regime.

^^good info Lusty.

European nations have agreed to secure the Strait.

What does it say about someone who takes myths, rumors, and assumptions as fact? Now, come up with some facts. Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

What does it say about someone who just makes a straw statement with no supporting body to it? Guess one could say that is why you are in the romper room in time out. Come back and learn how to put together a proper arguement. Not a maggie inuendo (sp) comment.

Germany says this is not NATOs war. So I guess that’s a polite way of saying “kick rocks” to Trump. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

It is not. NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization. Maybe SEATO? But that is eastern asia.

Article Five says an attack on one is an attack on all. Turkey and Cyprus got missile attacks. You stickers for legalese have to acknowledge that that was an attack on NATO.
Now, do we NEED the support of Germany? Not really but you want to share the burden such as it is now. That way everyone recognizes that they have skin in the game. And they can't come back later like democrats do and say we were against this the whole time. Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

But *WE* initiated the attack which maggies are calling a war/not war. Article 5 is to deal with aggressors. This why you were banned? Tell us why when you come out of the romper room.

More depth to the quagmire….Trump had lost control of the Staits entirely, and countries are negotiating with Iran directly.


How Iran defied Trump threats to emerge as Strait of Hormuz gatekeeper

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/...muz-gatekeeper

The longer we stay in this mess Trump caused, the deeper the quagmire will get.

elg… Originally Posted by elghund

Ah. That Art of the Deal in action. Maggies must love the flexing of grey matter the orange blob is displaying.

European nations have agreed to secure the Strait. Originally Posted by VitaMan

Hmmm. A few days later and haven't seen anything about that.

Trump starts another needless war……with Howdy Doody Hegseth at his side…..I
wonder how many American lives Trump is gonna continue to screw up all across the world to feed his Hitler wanna be megalomania…..

This is the second Republican Administration (Bush II) to start something in the Middle East that will take decades to get out of, and cost the lives of too many American servicemen and women, for nothing……just like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Funny how Trump says we have no money for taking care of the infrastructure of the country….social safety nets for the poor and sick….destroying public landmarks without any plans or approvals on how to reconstruct them……but there’s always plenty of money for wars and lavish parties for his cronies……
elg….. Originally Posted by elghund

Trump, Hegseth and Rubio are all under the mistaken belief that they can simply bomb their way to victory. It appears that they didn’t learn anything from our struggles in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.

The only way to completely conquer a people is to put large numbers of troops on the ground, Bomb their cities into rubble and starve them into submission if necessary.

Russia and Israel know this which is why Israel flattened Gaza and Putin is trying to destroy Ukrainian public infrastructure.

We have the capability to destroy Iran’s electricity and water infrastructure but putting enough troops on the ground for long enough time to change their society, The US doesn’t have the resources or the time to do that.

...The only way to completely conquer a people is to put large numbers of troops on the ground, Bomb their cities into rubble and starve them into submission if necessary... Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Think you might have interchanged the definition of the words Conquering versus Freeing the people from a repressive regime that has no hesitation in killing said people.

Think you might have interchanged the definition of the words Conquering versus Freeing the people from a repressive regime that has no hesitation in killing said people. Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

That’s semantics. My statement still applies.

That’s semantics. My statement still applies. Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Seems some still can't differentiate between being a Subject versus being a Citizen of a free country.

Regardless, that's why we are trying to avoid inflicting pain and devastation on the "People" of Iran, but no hesitation in doing so for the intolerant ruling class, aka Oppressors of the Subjects of the ruling class.