The Great Toymaker

You are completely out of line SOB. KC may be a tad on the strident side, but your writing indicates your hatred for Jewish people eclipses your disdain for Israel or your love for anybody else.

I support Israel, though I do not always support its policies and actions. I have never been there, though my kids have.

To say that Israel=Judaism/"The Jews" is wrong and racist and smacks of the narrow mindedness that leads to bomb blasts in public markets and other acts of racially/'religiously charged terror. It's like saying Germany="The Nazis" or ECCIE="The Whoremongers." (OK maybe the third isn't so wrong.)

It's obvious to me that you know exactly what you're doing, SOB.

You need to stop the race baiting now, or explain why it's OK. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Please re-read my post. I did not say Israel= Judaism. There are periods between sentences to denote different subjects. And I didn't slam Kosher for being Jewish. A fact he proclaims himself. Now you assume I hate the Jews, untrue, I disdain people individually of many different races, creeds, or religions. One of my faults.You're not reading between the lines. You're reading stuff into my words. You need to get off me.

Let's go through this post bit by bit.

Apple has always made some good products, but their problem has always been the narcisstic persona of Steve Jobs. He really got in the way. Jobs didn't want Apple to be a great company. He wanted it to be a cult; a cult about him.

To be as successful as they've been, the products need to be a little better than "good". What exactly did Jobs get in the way of and how is Apple not a great company? Is TAE a great company? What defines greatness in your book?

Isn't Jobs the same guy who was removed from Apple at one time?

Yes and the company suffered terribly without him.

Isn't he the guy who fathered a child and swore in depositions that it/she couldn't be his because he was sterile, and then fathered children with another wife?

That's been reported. No big coverup.

Isn't he the inventor of the "Lisa" desktop, which he named after one of his favorite girlfriends.

Who cares?

One doesn't have to know his real history to see that he'd be better cast as a meglomaniac Roman Emperor than a corporate CEO.

He's widely regarded as one of the best, most successful CEOs in history. How could be possibly have been better cast doing something else?

Anyone who's seen his grandeous, exalted stage performances at the launching of Apple products knows the answer to that. What many didn't know was why - that he was an unwanted child who grew up alienated and broke and craved attention and acceptance. Every product they introduced was, in his own mind, as much about him as it was about the product or its users.

Not a big secret that he was an outstanding showman. So what? He could back it up. People liked and continue to like what he was selling.

He was a legend in his own mind.

Pot...kettle...black...

When Gates departs from the scene I will welcome it as much also. No one has to be an A-hole to build a company.

Does this apply to TAE as well?

What's particularly pernicious about these guys is that they pose themselves as the "anti-establishment techie leaders" who don't believe in doing evil. Their hypocracy is emblematic of everything to do with high tech - it's not as revolutionary as it's promoters claim. It's merely doing the same jobs and meeting the same needs in a slightly different way.

A slightly different way? Kosher already pointed out how your job was changed. Would you like to go back to newspaper advertising?

These people are not iconoclasts.

Do they claim to be?

They are promoters and showmen. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Yawn. Quite possibly your most ridiculous post ever.

Oh, and SOB ... yes you did.

You want folks to get off you? Then cease the hate rhetoric.

The reason for my critic of him is that he's emblematic of how the media spins myths contrived by others to push ignoble agendas. The media credits him for everything he wants to be credited for and ignores all the real facts about him he's wished to conceal.

In the last thirty years this country has come off the rails...financially, culturally, politically, at a time when the rise of technology should have made things better not worse.

Regretably technology came to be promoted by phonies and showmen just as the banking world, communications, and even medicine and law have been hijacked by self-serving crooks posing what they do as "progress." Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

You can say the same thing about a lot of other people. There are a lot of people who have built their wealth on simply promoting themselves or some
product. They spin the truth or exaggerate it for their benefit. This includes people from all walks of life from business people to celebrities to Athletes, etc. You can write an entire book about it. Unfortunately, this is what America is about. Land of opportunity.

It is shocking that anyone could be so deluded as to actually believe the myth that we wouldn't have PCs or smart phones were it not for this self-aggrandizing guy.

Jobs contributed nothing except the sperm for the child he fathered and then shunned in the same way his own father spawned him and then shunned him.

He was an A-hole who posed himself as a new age guru whose ingestion of large amounts of something he shouldn't have eventually caused him to contract an incurable cancer at an early age.

He's a member of my generation, which is full of such self-styled characters who've given us a host of phoney solutions to non-existent problems, among which are credit default swaps, mortgage-backed securities, untested vaccines for deseases nobody dies from, etc. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Sure, its possible somebody would have created the products even without Jobs. To me Jobs was just a guy who wanted to create something he felt would benefit people, but nobody was forcing anybody to buy his products. You also say that his products just like a lot of other products are made in unsavory conditions in some foreign country like China and India while someone else is getting rich of it. Jobs is was not the only one who benefited from it.

blatantly plagiarized but I totally agree...

"What did the hero Steve Jobs really do? He miniaturized the computer (PC). That is all friends, nothing more. Jobs created devices that basically had no practical importance, and people went crazy over them. Young ladies walking down the streets staring into their devices texting nothing important, thanks Steve. People sitting at their breaks with a slightly bigger device checking football standings, thanks Steve. Humanity, you got to wonder! And the addiction that these devices have created is astounding. Crack cocaine has nothing on this stuff. Think about it people. What good is this technology? Total triviality, nothing more.
Rest in peace Steve, but thanks for killing human interaction. What a great man."

and the 16 people who jumped off the roof of foxxconn because of working conditions so I could have my shiny iTouch? Thanks Steve.

Steve Jobs might have been an SOB but very few people have accomplished what he did. I suspect the people that hate on successful people like Jobs just don't understand what it takes to build a company like Apple. I mean, he took the company from almost bankruptcy to being the most valuable company in the United States. How many CEO's have accomplished that? Very few, most CEO's get paid to leave after they screw up the company (hello HP, Leo took home close to $70 million between HP and SAP in less than a year, all to leave after he didn't perform). Between CEO's like Leo and Jobs, I'd rather have a Jobs anytime.

ok so he's a great capitalist. He was great at paying little and charging a lot. Thats economic gold there...

He made billions.. woohoo. But I'm not going to throw him on a pedestal as a humanitarian, or making the world a better place. a lazier place built on the backs of a lot of miserable Chinese workers? absolutely

Jobs could have done all the same things with half of the profiteering and American workers instead of shady overseas manufacturing. He is a prime example of one of the reasons our economy is fucked. And to honor him Apple has 160 newly hired lobbyists working dilgently to bring Billions of those overseas profits home dodging as much corporate tax as possible for stockholders in the form of stock buyback and dividends... not Jobs. <pun intended>

Let's go through this post bit by bit.




Yawn. Quite possibly your most ridiculous post ever. Originally Posted by Booth

Booth Bro you ROCK !!!

He was an A-hole who posed himself as a new age guru whose ingestion of large amounts of something he shouldn't have eventually caused him to contract an incurable cancer at an early age.

He's a member of my generation, which is full of such self-styled characters who've given us a host of phoney solutions to non-existent problems, among which are credit default swaps, mortgage-backed securities, untested vaccines for deseases nobody dies from, etc. Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

i agree that the new age guru stuff is ridiculous but going after him in such detail is ridiculous too. he was a troubled guy who tried to realize his purpose or vision the best he could. He was a game changer whether you like him or not.

btw, what "large amounts of something" did he ingest that hurt him? are we talking forbidden topics or something like booze? never heard that before.

btw, what "large amounts of something" did he ingest that hurt him? Originally Posted by NewWave

probably a reference to Jobs admitted use of LSD

You can say the same thing about a lot of other people. There are a lot of people who have built their wealth on simply promoting themselves or some
product. They spin the truth or exaggerate it for their benefit. This includes people from all walks of life from business people to celebrities to Athletes, etc. You can write an entire book about it. Unfortunately, this is what America is about. Land of opportunity. Originally Posted by kingorpawn

My point is this - hypocracy.

While the media and much of the non-computer industry public is fawning all over this guy those of us who were around this industry at the beginning know him for what he really is, or was.

If he was the benign visionary the media and his acolytes portray he'd never have given those absurd, ridiculous stage performances he relished in, as well as his ultra-secretive practices, paranoia, contempt for anyone around him who doesn't lick his boots, etc.

I'm sure he's no different than Carnegie, Ford, Rockefella, and a host of other robber barrons and pirates; but that's my point....he insisted he was the antidote to such things when he was actually their embodiment.

Otherwise he's just another cool dude with a turtleneck and a funny vest no one else would wear....

My point is this - hypocracy.

While the media and much of the non-computer industry public is fawning all over this guy those of us who were around this industry at the beginning know him for what he really is, or was.

If he was the benign visionary the media and his acolytes portray he'd never have given those absurd, ridiculous stage performances he relished in, as well as his ultra-secretive practices, paranoia, contempt for anyone around him who doesn't lick his boots, etc.

I'm sure he's no different than Carnegie, Ford, Rockefella, and a host of other robber barrons and pirates; but that's my point....he insisted he was the antidote to such things when he was actually their embodiment.

Otherwise he's just another cool dude with a turtleneck and a funny vest no one else would wear.... Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

I agree. I was around too when he and Bill Gates started and yes he was known as a tyrant and extremely abusive to his employees. That's one reason he was fired from Apple, but like I said before, he wasn't even an engineer. He had others built the technology. All he did was give them his vision of what he wanted and someone else built it. But again a lot of CEO's, Politicians, Celebrities, Professional athletes, etc. Can be placed in the same light. I think a lot of them are psychos.

I agree. yes he was known as a tyrant and extremely abusive to his employees. That's one reason he was fired from Apple Originally Posted by kingorpawn

I never worked for the guy but knew others who did. He was utterly dispised by those around him, as was Gates. To see the shiningly distorted treatment of him by the public today is sickening.