Nationalize BP

I don't believe Carter is anti-semitic; I do think he shoots off his mouth without thinking and when you are an ex-Prez talking about a heated conflict that is a really bad thing. FWIW I know some of the important players in the Egypt-Israel peace talks in 1978-79. While they disagree on a bunch of stuff they all agree that Begin and Sadat really wanted a deal but it took Carter to nail it; without him the deal doesn't happen. While it has not been a "warm" peace Israel has had a secure Southern border (aside from Gaza which Egypt refused to take back) for 30 years.

Oh, and PJ you can invite CaptainMidnight to our post 2012 election where you are buying me a drink after Obama is re-elected; heck you can both buy me one

Carter started out as a great ex-President. Habitat for Humanity, election monitoring were both fantastic things. Unfortunately he then got too full of himself and started branching out. Originally Posted by discreetgent

Sure, thats just who you want monitoring elections -- a naive moralizer. Big help. Jimmy was always a putz. And I'm ashamed I voted for him. Its a shame the killer rabbit didn't do him in.

Jimmy was always a putz. And I'm ashamed I voted for him. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Me, too. (But I didn't vote for his re-election in '80).

Did anyone vote for him in 1980? The electoral vote was 489 to 49 -- the biggest blowouts of an incumbent President ever. Even worse than FDR's 472-59 trouncing of Hoover.

I only brought it up because someone waaaaay far back in the thread said, and I’m paraphrasing here, that anyone that doesn’t agree with the Obama and Pelosi agenda are birthers. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Oh my God, not only did you obviously fail to get the sarcasm, but taking the sarcasm out for a moment, you've even twisted the literal meaning into something that it's so not. You're 0 for 2 Olivia. Between you and Captainmidnight, who goes into a self induced epileptic seizure any time the term birther is used, good grief. Chill out already.

Originally Posted by Doove
Sorry, but that's just an absurd comment...

First of all, please notice that I preceeded the quote snippet you gave with, "It seems to me." Am I not allowed to hold an opinion without seeing you characterize it as "absurd."
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Ok, let me rephrase. "Sorry, but it seems to me that's just an absurd comment." Is that better?

...Between you and Captainmidnight, who goes into a self induced epileptic seizure any time the term birther is used... Originally Posted by Doove

Oh, puhleeeze!

Get over it. All I did was point out the silliness of comparing the beliefs of anyone who opposes destructive fiscal policies with those of "birthers." That's exactly what you did earlier in this thread. If you get off on hurling childish, stupid insults, as you also did earlier in this thread, don't be surprised if your target calls you out on them.

I noticed that you, like WTF, didn't spend so much as a single keystroke describing how you think we're going to get out of the hole we've dug, or why you think we can afford this left-wing fiscal agenda. Who do think is going to pay for it?

Are you capable of discussing the issues from an informed position? Or are you only capable of taking snide little cheap shots?

(Somehow I suspect it's the latter.)

I didn’t say he caused the spill. I said he spun the resulting damage, and he did it, according to the article, on information that the White House knew was incorrect or, to put it another way, low-balled on purpose. Change we need? Sounds like politics as usual. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Just so i have proper context, i should probably ask, did you vote for Bush? The reason for my asking is because, if you did, i'd be curious to know, was it before or after (or both) his administration told us we'd be greeted in Iraq with hearts and flowers? That the war would cost, oh, $18billion, and be paid for entirely with Iraqi oil revenues? That it might last 6 days, maybe 6 weeks, but certainly not 6 months?

nd Doove. Orly Taitz? Please, like I said earlier in the thread. I have my birth certificate. $12, a few mouse clicks and the State of Texas printed it out on a really pretty multi-colored, heavy stock piece of paper. And then……………before they mailed it to me…………..they stamped it with the official State of Texas seal. So, I’m just sayin’…………The best way to shut people up is to shove it down their throat! I’m not saying he’s not a natural born citizen; but I am saying he’s never proved he is. It's kind of a big deal if there is a real question, because it's a really big deal job.

And Olivia? Just so you know, he has. He's provided exactly what you'd provide if asked to prove you were born in this country. Your $12 copy on pretty multi colored heavy stock paper with the state seal. Key word being "copy". You don't have your original and will never be asked to present your original since it's sitting in some file cabinet at City Hall in the municipality where you were born. Just how many Republican Hawaiian officials have to tell you that the copy he put out there is backed up by the original copy that is part of their records for you to believe it?

So yes, Orly Taitz. And i only brought HER up when you patted yourself on the back for being so brilliant for calling Obama the anointed one. You know, like only smart people do.

Noam Chomsky. Now he's a really unbiased source of information, isn't he?

Why don't you pay more attention to what Jimmy Carter actually said, and less to what other biased individuals say?

! Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Norm is no more biased than Alan D and you were the one that brought Alan D into the picture. Don't go screaming about biased sources after you have done that very thing.

By the way, I noticed you didn't spend so much as a keystroke on how you think Obama plans on getting us out of the brewing fiscal crisis. Maybe you're a big fan of the VAT! Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

It is called a business cycle. That is what will happen. Obama has nothing to do with it.

is it nurture or nature? Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

The Jews say it nature the Palestinians nurture!

Carter started out as a great ex-President. Habitat for Humanity, election monitoring were both fantastic things. Unfortunately he then got too full of himself and started branching out. Originally Posted by discreetgent

branching out? Is that code for not being political correct and actually telling the truth?

And Olivia? Just so you know, he has. He's provided exactly what you'd provide if asked to prove you were born in this country. Your $12 copy on pretty multi colored heavy stock paper with the state seal. Key word being "copy". You don't have your original and will never be asked to present your original since it's sitting in some file cabinet at City Hall in the municipality where you were born. Just how many Republican Hawaiian officials have to tell you that the copy he put out there is backed up by the original copy that is part of their records for you to believe it?

Originally Posted by Doove

Thats a fact Oliva. That is why I asked you to do just a little digging. Even most far right righties don't go with that birther crap any more. Only the lunnies still think he needs to address this. Seriously bring this up is like wearing a tin foil cap. Its a Tea Party topic and even most of those cats don't go there any more.

Get over it. All I did was point out the silliness of comparing the beliefs of anyone who opposes destructive fiscal policies with those of "birthers." That's exactly what you did earlier in this thread. Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

We've had this discussion already. I realize it's sometimes difficult to follow a thread, but you really do need to do a better job of keeping up.

If you get off on hurling childish, stupid insults, as you also did earlier in this thread, don't be surprised if your target calls you out on them.

So, you're saying that comparing someone to a birther is a childish, stupid insult? Olivia, are you gonna take that lying down?

Are you capable of discussing the issues from an informed position? Or are you only capable of taking snide little cheap shots?

Yes.

branching out? Is that code for not being political correct and actually telling the truth? Originally Posted by WTF

Nope; just an observation that ex-presidents are best off staying out of current issues, especially hot button ones. Whether that is Carter, Clinton, Bush I, or Bush II. If asked for advice by the current administration they should give it privately. JMHO

Norm is no more biased than Alan D and you were the one that brought Alan D into the picture. Don't go screaming about biased sources after you have done that very thing. Originally Posted by WTF

Cap'n12:00 seems to be making a habit of this.

Project much, Captainmidnight?

Just so i have proper context, i should probably ask, did you vote for Bush? The reason for my asking is because, if you did, i'd be curious to know, was it before or after (or both) his administration told us we'd be greeted in Iraq with hearts and flowers? That the war would cost, oh, $18billion, and be paid for entirely with Iraqi oil revenues? That it might last 6 days, maybe 6 weeks, but certainly not 6 months? ....................... Originally Posted by Doove

Not only no but fuck no not the first time and definitely not the second time! I was and still am no W fan. If you’d bothered to read my post earlier in the thread, you’d have noticed that I’m a left of central Independent. Beyond that, I’m a sentient voter. I don’t vote for whoever is trotted out before me because of party affiliation or whatever. See what people do when they are at a loss for something to say is shout out sound bits they’ve heard on TV or buzz words to throw the dogs off the scent. Birthers, fascists or, here’s an oldie but goodie, baby-killers. The fact that people question Obama for his runaway spending and politics as usual – especially since “We Need Change” mantra – does not make us political pariahs or ridiculous. It just makes us sensible.

It’s ok to question authority or to say the president has no clothes on! He doesn’t have a clue! His spending policy is to throw money - no belch it – all over the HIS electorate. He’s not putting people to work with this spending like the FDR did. If we were building roads or dams or some other such public works, the money would spread out through the economy. You know kinda like the oil is spreading throughout the Gulf of Mexico. The money would trickle out into the economy in paid suppliers and employees who in turn pay their suppliers, employees and rent. But NO. We can’t put these people to work to get their dough. Then, they just might not vote for Obama.


Obama on the day he was elected all but said the seas would part for him. And I quote the last paragraph from his acceptance speech:

“The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals. Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.”

Wow, the day he was elected was the day that the ball got rolling on all these wonderful things? The oceans began to rise and the world heal because the “Anointed One” himself was elected.

And he didn’t present a sealed copy everyone knows that.

I’m done going back and forth over nonsense and sound bites. If you want to actually debate, you know where I am.

I’m a left of central Independent. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

And this is what moves election. The hard right and the hard left ain't moving whatever happens or whoever is running. Elections are all about folks like Olivia who do change their minds. Obama won a bunch of them in 2008. Odds are he will win a whole lot less in 2012 unless this cart gets out of the ditch pretty damn soon.

btw Olivia, are those jeans going on or off?