why do we give money to Israel?
Personally, I would nuke the entire region, doze it flat, pave it and build a giant walmart.
Originally Posted by dirty dog
Here's something better...contiune to reduce our addiction to their oil.
IMO, "war on terrorism" should have started back in the '70's when the Arab Embargo cut off our gasoline supplies. But sadly it took recent high oil prices to get off our national "crack additction" from the Mid East.
Instead we continue to rely on them for our oil. I guess finally the price of oil is high enough, that alternative suppliers and alternative energy is starting us in the right direction.
When that finally happens, I wonder how concern we will be about the Arab Spring, democracy in Mid East, being involved in wars. and being Israel's rubber stamp.
Sadly, a perfect example of our indifference would be...see Africa
So you are in favor of drilling for oil in Anwar and building the Keystone pipeline.
The UN charter was signed in 1945, the partition of Palestine occured in 1947.
Funny thing about Real Politik, sometimes your enemies become your friends and vice versa. We were friends with Japan and Italy in 1918 but enemies in 1941. We were enemies of the Bolsheviks and then friend with the Soviet Union until we became enemies in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, .....
It was Jimmy Carter who forced the Shah to allow the religious nuts to come back to Iran or lose our backing. The Shah acquiesed and the Jimmy Carter cut off the Shah anyway (backstabbing little son of a bitch). Jimmy Carter recognized Yassir Arafat and helped create modern Iran. Who do you think the Godfather of modern terrorism is?
The same reason we give money to any foreign nation - influence.
[QUOTE=NoahScape;1052542096]100% spot on.
I'd have to check my history books, but I think the U.N. got formed right after Israel.
Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. Look at how we meddled in Iran, starting in the late 1940s. Overthrow the government, support the Shah of Iran. Fast forward to the 1970s, the Shah gets deposed, religious nuts take over. Hostages get taken, Reagan gets an undeserved win for nothing, like most of his Presidency.
Saddam Hussein used to be our best friend over there when the Shah got deposed. Look at the pictures of Don Rumsfeld shaking hands with Sadam ca 1982. And 20 years later we're taking on Saddam Hussein. And so it goes...[/Q
obama he's going to fix all of that right with more of his apologie tours
How much longer do we continue to protect our little brother though? At some point Israel needs to get punched in the mouth so it will learn how to get along with neighbors. They keep making deals with the Palestinians then ignoring them when the Zionists decide to make new settlements. Now they are using separate busses, supposedly for the safety of the Palestinians. But somebody forgot to tell that to the Israeli troops because they are routinely getting thrown off of those same busses. This is like apartheid south Africa all over again.
It was the UN who voted to divide Palestine and create Israel. the UN Charter was signed in June of 1945 in San Francisco. Israel was created in May of 1948.
Get punched in the mouth??? How quaint. We are talking about extermination and not a punch in the mouth. The PLO, the Muslim Brotherhood, et. al have one thing in common; they want to exterminate the people of Israel. Let me see...is was war of extermination in 1948, it was a war to safe guard an untenable position in 1956, it was a war against 10:1 odds in 1967, it was a defensive war in 1973 to save themselves, it was a war into Lebanon to rid themselves of missile strikes in the north from Hezbollah, they stopped the Iraq nuclear power plant, they stopped a chemical weapon emplacement in Syria. Punch in the mouth??? Let me put it another way, do you think that the people of Rohan could have come to terms with the Uruk Hai orcs?
Oh please...in reality it was Harry Truman that created Israel....the UN merely rubberstamp that in a post WWII era. Let's not play that BS game.
Yea, European Jews had a horrible nightmare from WWII...but why should the folks in Palestine forsake their home land in 1948???
With the exception of the Vatican...what modern day country was form based only on a religion??? Many of today's religions place high importance to this area...not just the Jews
How would any of us react if in 2013, that an outside force declared that the states of Kansas and Missouri were now going to be the country of Palestine, which just happen to be Muslims.
And we now have to leave our land to make room for the "hated Muslims"???? I would think extermination would be something that would be on our minds from many years as well.
Obviously, the reality is, the country of Israel is not going anywhere. And without doubt Israel has done extremely well when faced with military invasion from the Arabs...i.e. 1967 war.
And wasn't Syria, that the Israel bombed a nuclear power plant???
And it was the Muslim Brotherhood, who served a critical role in obtaining a cease-fire in the most recent Isaeli bombing, lol
But come on, to just blindly say the Arab world wants to drive Israel off the map....and not understand the underlying reasons, will never allow us a true understanding of Mid East politics
BTW....no it was not Carter's actions that lead to the overthrow of the Shah. It was the people of Iran who overthrew the Shah. Regardless of how Khomeini return to Iran, it was the Iranians themselves who embraced him....and despise the US-back Shah. To think otherwise is simply comical.
I am always amazed with some of you folks. When the people of a country, like 1979 Iran or the current Egyptian people put into place the folks they want to represent their gov't....and if it is not a US-approved gov't, well then you all cry fowl, lol
I guess democracy only works if it elects a US-approved govt??
I don't think it's fair to just look back to WWII. Isreal's history goes back for several thousands of years. I'm certainly no history scollar, but I think Isreal and Palestine had and lost their land several times over the last 2000 years or so. Wasn't land given to Palestine by the league of nations after WWI?
love2....I hear what you are saying, in terms of history.
But to understand....not accept, but understand.... today's situation in Mid East. Understand that over 700,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes after the 1948 creation of Israel. (Source wiki....sorry I don't know how to show link, lol)
These folks were not historians, but merely folks who lost their homes.
And no, I am not saying good Arabs, bad Israel. The situation over there is way too complex for there to be a simpleton analysis of good guy vs bad guy.
However part of today's understanding of that situation must include looking at both sides, not just one side
We gave them nukes, now we have to pay them not to use 'em.
The history of Israel is way too complicated for me to peck out on my phone....but I'll just say that those who have a strong opimion about it should pick up a big fat book and read about it. I view it as a European creation....the result of colonialism and anti-semitism. Now most Europeans blame all of the problems in the region on Israel, without taking a good hard look at themselves.....and somehow the U.S. is left holding the bag. As for the Palestinians, they can only work in Istael in a segregated fashion...not great. But Egypt has a great big razor wire fence keeping them out of their country. Think about that for a moment....so much for solidarity. And please understand the late nineteenth and early twentieth century history of Israel. There may have been people there a thousand years ago, but in modern times it was barren and nomadic....that's the whole reason jews fleeing Europe picked it as the place to go.....and this was long before 1948 btw. The came in as a trickle, with the spigot controlled by the British empire. Its not like they all arrived at once and evicted the Palestinians....the settled the area....and the term 'settlements' is still used in Israel today.
Nobody is completely pure on the region. But a review of the 'middle east peace process' can lead to only one conclusion - coexistence is not acceptable to the Palestinian leadetship....and why would it be, they are openly funded by Iran....which has openly called for the destruction of Israel. And most Americans don't realize it; but war weary elderly Israelis wanted peace for their kids and grandkids...and in the late 90s elected a government that offered the Palestinians everything they wanted...short of self annihilation. The Palestinian leadership, completely dependent on conflict as their source of power, refused to make a deal of course....and chose to use and abuse their own people...again.
Well the whole area is ripe for another war. The other nation we funnel money to, bit oddly with alot less complaints, has just had am alleged democratic revolution....which included nullification of treaties with Israel.
Lets be completely accurate; Truman was a strong force behind the creation of Israel but my point was that the UN existed before Israel. (it is so easy to look up thing like dates on the Internet) That was my point and not the right or wrong of the decision. I did point out that those wars modern Israel have fought is not a little school yard brawl, it is life or death for them.
The history of Palestine goes back thousands of years. Where do you draw an arbitary line in history I guess depends on which political side you believe in. The fact is that the Jews never completely left Israel either physically or spiritually. The Jews have said for thousands of years, "next year in Jerusalem". Yes, some Palestinians (geographic definition as there are no tribal people known as Palestinians) were forced out by the incoming Jews but many were also called away by the Grand Mufti who was safely in Jordan. He promised them that they could return and kill all the Jews. For many the exile was voluntary. They became such a problem for the Jordanian king that he had many killed and expelled Arafat.
To whom I support; if the Palestinians laid down their weapons and refused to fight anymore then there would be peace. If the Israelis did the same then there would be a holocaust by the Arabs.
The REAL reason we give money to any country(Israel) or anyone is to "BUY THEM"!Some call it "influence" but it's buying them,really.
The Jewish Lobby is the most powerful in Washington,DC ,bar none.Having strong lobbists,combined with money/favors(inflencing politicians elections)is what gets results in DC.Anything else is a remote second(decency,doing the honorable thing,etc.).Money,power,strong media influence and a strong lobby is what matters.The Jewish lobby/political organization has all that and more.No other organization comes even close.
End of story!
