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I deleted the word "virgin" and was wondering if you thought your post would still be accurate with the following change made Originally Posted by PleasantSurprise

It is not accurate. Anyone can claim to be thoughtful and appreciative.

With or without virgin status, I think it's more based around how thankful and appreciative the lady is or if she's already turned... sour. Originally Posted by PleasantSurprise

No, you want it to be like that and want others to feel the same way. It's not. When you take someone to an event (Broadway play, art exhibit, opera ETC) that you love and it is their first time and they love it too, you re-live part of your first time experience too. That is what makes it special and is what WTF was talking about. I know because I have felt it too.

A friend of mine took me to the opera as a teen, and I was thankful and appreciative but I hated it, and he knew it. It wasn't a pleasant experience for either of us, and that is the down side of the virgin experience: you don't know how the first timer will react. But the main point is thankful and appreciative does not equal virgin.

This comes across as if
willing to compensate virgin SB 100% for her lost job.
unwilling to compensate HDH 100% for her lost job.

Almost like the... HDH is expected to take a pay cut, whereas the virgin SB maintains her income but just swaps the source.

One step further, do you think a virgin SB would quit her $1200 a month job in exchange to receive $600 from a SD? Originally Posted by PleasantSurprise

This is wrong on so many levels. Sex with SBs has almost always been better than sex with providers because of the emotional component. Even if it were equal, providers are like the $10 bottle of Fuji Water at the hotel wet bar. Men are paying for the convenience.

The guy saying it is all about the money is playing to the providers desires here. For the man, the biggest upfront investment in getting a SB is usually time, and the second is value for the money not the quantity of money. One SB is infamous for hitting men up with annoying and frequent $100 requests.

The monthly stipend is not the most common arrangement. The one time I did it that way and the SB got her money, the rest of the month she had one purpose: angling for more money. I won't do a monthly stipend ever again.

As for providers becoming SBs, the question is all about how much, and that isn't it for SBs at all. The first issue for the virgin SB is how she will feel about herself after taking money for sex. The second issue is trust: can you trust the SD to keep his word and pay, to not fall in love or become obsessed with her, to not be overly controlling ETC.

If you have sex with the same person it is going to get old, and guys are likely going to want more to keep it fresh if with the same person, and a lot of SBs have come to expect and dread this. I have kept multiple SBs to keep it fresh. If I go more frequently than once every two weeks, it gets old.

As for compensating providers who want to be SBs more, that is absurd. Prior experience in this case is usually a negative and let me make an analogy. When Vizio came out and started selling TVs for $600 that Sony was selling for $2000 and were just as good, did Sony come out and say "OK, Vizio TVs may be as good, but we used to be selling our TVs for $2000 so you guys should be appreciative we are willing to go down to $1000." Of course not. You are reminding the consumer he was ripped off before.

This is probably the best post and demonstration of why providers couldn't be good SBs though. For them, it is purely money for sex, and so PS, you are to be commended for your honesty.

We agree, thankful and appreciative does not equal virgin. I found your statements here to be inaccurate because you presented them as if a SB had to be a VIRGIN for the rest of what you typed to be true. I don't think a SB must be a virgin, and so I deleted virgin, and inserted what I thought would add accuracy to your... opinions presented as facts.

When you take someone to an event (Broadway play, art exhibit, opera ETC) that you love and it is their first time and they love it too, you re-live part of your first time experience too. That is what makes it special and is what WTF was talking about. I know because I have felt it too.

A friend of mine took me to the opera as a teen, and I was thankful and appreciative but I hated it, and he knew it. It wasn't a pleasant experience for either of us, and that is the down side of the virgin experience: you don't know how the first timer will react. But the main point is thankful and appreciative does not equal virgin. Originally Posted by woodyboyd

I think the bold is what differentiates you and I.

For me, it's more about the person I am with than the activity. I might hate running, but I would run every day with my partner if he asked me to, and I wouldn't bitch and moan and make it a horrible and unpleasant experience. I would say, you want me to run... of course I will run; I would love to do that with you, let's go do it.

Hey, I would like to go to this concert next week, would you go with me? And you would go with me and because even though you dislike the band, it's worth it to you to be there with me, standing by my side, watching my eyes light up and holding my hand or occasionally kissing me on the cheek.

I find it very selfish for a person to make an experience they personally don't enjoy... unpleasant for others.
If the activity doesn't interest you, should you never go with me?
If the activity doesn't interest me, should I never go with you?
Or should one go, and then be a grouch?
If the activity is so important, go do it by yourself so you can check it of your list.

In my opinion, the activity doesn't matter, it's the thought that counts and being open minded and having fun with the person, regardless of whereabouts on the planet your two feet might be placed.

Middle

Bottom Line: Generalizations and stereotypes are a blessing for marketers.... but when it comes to human relationships whether driven by feelings or by money, the controversy will be served.

Sharing and contributing is the beauty and value of a board...I just wonder why people insist in arguing about the strictly personal and unique, knowing how sterile it is.

My 2 cents from fooling around for 2 years with SB....The ones whom cared about me did not thrill me. The ones whom thrilled me, did not care about me. The ones whom thrilled me and cared about me, became such a problem for my sake and stability (work, family etc) I had to suicide those relations. The ones whom did not thrill me or cared about me...not worth my money and certainly not my time. At the end... life seemed so much easier and so much less expensive when relying on a few good girls from here and other places...good women like Olivia ;-)

Olivia, congrats for your retirement...I think Macy told me about it in late spring...too bad I missed my opportunity for stealing another wonderful afternoon with you.

Peace to all

Sugar daddies will find you, and not you them! Originally Posted by Anna Davis

Well, let‘s assume there is some synchronicity there as well and a certain amount of reciprocity. I‘d say likeminded spirits or birds of a feather tend to just "find" each other, no?

What's wrong with it being "all for the money". Isn't that what capitalism is all about. hahaha Originally Posted by John Bull

I guess so, plus let‘s not forget we are here on a board of - mostly female - entertainers . So the bias that women are all about the money is certainly served here very well

That was me who said that. I still stand by it because this client is a double edged sword. This client will want and expect more and more of your time even if he's a guy that comes in town once a month. Sooner or later you will have to decide whether you want to or can give him the time he wants. It's better to have a broad book of business, because this type of client is on the fast track to being an ex-client. Other than that, I loved your post. Very astute. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I presume you are talking about the $2000/ mo client. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Forgive me, at my age sometimes I have forgotten more then I remember. I think you are saying the client who gives you more does not get precedence because he can be demanding. You are a wise buisness woman. I suggest to you that while you do give each client equal treatment in many ways, you still know where to draw the line. A man paying $2000/mo gets more attention than one paying $250 or $300/mo ( I haven't checked what your hourly rate was. Sorry if I was too low! My understanding was that you were worth $500/hr) I was never a client of yours although I looked when you were available. Had I paid $2000/mo, I would have received $2000 worth of service and I am willing to bet that if I booked at the same time a new customer booked that the newbie to you would have been scheduled for a different time. You can't get around that. More money gets better and unequal treatment. I'm sure you also gave better treatment to the gentlemen who really knew how to turn you on. That is why I never approached you. I don't believe you were interested in learners. While I also believe in treating all the ladies with equal respect, the ones that looked at what I had, poked it and said,"Is that all you have?" got a little less respect.

I'm sure you also gave better treatment to the gentlemen who really knew how to turn you on. Originally Posted by heinz5710

Most will do that, but especially Olivia...and in her case the start button was mostly intellectual...although she also was receptive to a fit body and silk boxers ;-)

Most will do that, but especially Olivia...and in her case the start button was mostly intellectual...although she also was receptive to a fit body and silk boxers ;-) Originally Posted by 4karlos

That leaves me out. If I bought silk boxers the wife would know I'm hobbying. She doesn't see the need for anything sexy. Maybe I'd get a point or two with a shopping spree at Victoria Secrets.

As a client, have you ever requested 1 hour and then stayed 2 hours?
Is it something that you do on a repeat basis?
If so, why do you request a date and then stay twice as long and not pay accordingly?
If you usually need more time, why not ask for more time up front?
For me, it would make sense to ask before the date, rather than putting the lady in an awkward position while together, overstaying the welcome. If she's ok with it, she'll say yes in advance.

As a client, what are your thoughts on providers or ladies with social rates?
Do you think social rates mean the lady is more in it for the money than the time with you?
Personally, without a social rate, I would be spending every morning afternoon evening and weekend going out on dates, and off the clock social dates would consume all of my time and bills wouldn't get paid. Thus the need for a social rate. Having a rate was the best idea I could come up with to cut back on the number of lunch and dinner dates.
But what ideas do you have to best manage time and not get burned out with going on breakfast, lunch, dinner dates, and activities 24/7?
I like going out on dates instead of private time all the time. What would you suggest?

Some form of agreement is necessary to ensure a level of fairness between both parties…… so you as the client or SD don't feel taken advantage of, so the lady feels like she can trust that you will remain fair, and mainly so both have an idea of what to expect.

I really like dates that are strictly social and doing things that aren't always based around ending up at my place or yours. I just don't know how to make public outings manageable. They are manageable with a social rate, but I can see where charging would appear as if in it for the money.

If there's a high demand and only a limited amount of time available.... ?

Bottom Line: Generalizations and stereotypes are a blessing for marketers.... but when it comes to human relationships whether driven by feelings or by money, the controversy will be served.

Sharing and contributing is the beauty and value of a board...I just wonder why people insist in arguing about the strictly personal and unique, knowing how sterile it is.

My 2 cents from fooling around for 2 years with SB....The ones whom cared about me did not thrill me. The ones whom thrilled me, did not care about me. The ones whom thrilled me and cared about me, became such a problem for my sake and stability (work, family etc) I had to suicide those relations. The ones whom did not thrill me or cared about me...not worth my money and certainly not my time. At the end... life seemed so much easier and so much less expensive when relying on a few good girls from here and other places...good women like Olivia ;-) Originally Posted by 4karlos

Sounds about right . Everybody wants forbidden fruit and it's hard to value what's simply given seemingly without cost to you.

Olivia, congrats for your retirement...I think Macy told me about it in late spring...too bad I missed my opportunity for stealing another wonderful afternoon with you.

Peace to all Originally Posted by 4karlos

Thanks! Life's good.

I presume you are talking about the $2000/ mo client. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Originally Posted by heinz5710

What I'm saying is that which you tend flourishes. If you forsake your steady clients and hourly clients for clients spending $2,000 a month on you or more, be prepared to have your book of business pruned by YOU.


I'm also not saying:

• I didn't value clients spending so much on me.
• I would have blown him off if I have another client asking for the same time slot.
• I would have blown off another client just for him. I believe I said I'd reschedule the other client if I could. But I wouldn't cancel a date that had been made in advance. If it was same day, then maybe.
• I would have shitcaned my regular business because some married man wanted to spend $2,000 a month on me and in the end I'd the one with the hurt emotions and decimated bank account when he goes away and my other clients had drifted away.

What I am saying is ladies need to BEWARE of what they see as easy money or a client that percentage wise dominates their income. THAT'S ALL. They will demand more and more of your time. Or they will tire of you and move on. Or you will get into a bf/gf type fight and they will strangle your finances if they go away temporarily or permanently. Or he gets too close and knows he's not going to leave his wife and goes away. Whatever. I would not have risked my income stream for one high paying client unless we have a solid arrangement, an emotional connection and he's not married.

I am also saying that I would give preferential treatment to a high paying client, but ladies have to ALWAYS BE LOOKING FOR NEW REGULARS TO REPLACE THE REGULARS THAT MOVE ON FOR WHATEVER REAOSN. I don't care if you like that or not. That's just the way it is. It's your hobby, and it's our livings.

More money gets better and unequal treatment. I'm sure you also gave better treatment to the gentlemen who really knew how to turn you on. That is why I never approached you. I don't believe you were interested in learners. While I also believe in treating all the ladies with equal respect, the ones that looked at what I had, poked it and said,"Is that all you have?" got a little less respect. Originally Posted by heinz5710

I'm sorry if you feel that way. You would have gotten from me the exact same thing everyone got from me. A sincere appreciation of you and the time you choose to spend with me. Believe it or not, I actually enjoyed my job. I would never have looked at your in any way that would have you believe I though anything of the sort. If you don't like me fine. I'm ok with that, but don't read something into me that I'm not.

Thank you for your honesty Olivia. I realize that before you retired, I could have approached you and been treated well. When I started having problems as all men who age do, I started booking and paying for longer sessions. Looking back, I am very grateful for what I did get. Now I know it won't surprise you but many of the ladies gave me extra time with them not because I was the greatest in the sack but because I treated them well and they enjoyed my company. Many years ago I did have one lady who gave me the line "I hope you enjoyed it because I didn't!" Obviously I never saw her again. The discussion here has been interesting because of the varied views. By some standards if I paid a lady to have lunch with me and she stayed with me four hours she would be a SB. Personally I don't agree. To me, the SD/SB is only achieved when he is helping out financially but when the sex comes and when the money comes are not linked. My definition is close to 'friends with benefits'. I do what I can for my friends including money which I have . I've been generous with the ladies. The reason I don't think providers can make good SB is the fact that they tend to put a price on everything with the excuse that they must pay the bills. Many here have SD/SB relationships where there is some giving on both sides and it isn't thought of as sex for money. Others need to have some sort of agreement as to how much each gives. Each to his/her own. Right now, I'm dealing with some health problems not STD related but urological. I won't be anyone's client for a few weeks and then I may retire. I understand the fact that you treated ALL of your clients well, but to a degree we are all judgemental. I was in buisness for a long time. I can assure you that some preferrential treatment was given clients that paid more of my bills. In most cases I could usually work things out to make everyone happy. However, I can assure you that clients that paid for extra service got that service. This discussion is bordering on the 'can a provider have a relationship outside the trade'. If you have read well, you will note that it is difficult if not impossible. Furthermore, the gentlemen pretty much frown on actually loving the providers and they make it clear the providers aren't your GF. Reality is a bit different. Many gentlemen are looking for the GFE. It for the most part isn't how many holes on the golf course are available. For the most part it is the attitude of both. For the hour or two that I was with a lady I expected to be treated with dignity and I treated the ladies well. Providers were the only GFs I have had and it NEVER extended outside the appoinment time. Many providers would love to have SD but logic tells us that you have a real problem rationalizing the freebees on both sides that needs to be there. The fine Irish lady that spoke of hers is the exception and not the rule. BTW, I have met her in person but was never a client of hers. I was judgemental . If you look at Ashly Madison, you will find many more SD/SB relationships then here. Lastly, if I were 20 years younger and you were still practicing you would have a PM in your box. Intelligent, attractive ladies who knew how to treat a man were my type

As a client, have you ever requested 1 hour and then stayed 2 hours?
Is it something that you do on a repeat basis?
If so, why do you request a date and then stay twice as long and not pay accordingly?
If you usually need more time, why not ask for more time up front?
For me, it would make sense to ask before the date, rather than putting the lady in an awkward position while together, overstaying the welcome. If she's ok with it, she'll say yes in advance.
Originally Posted by PleasantSurprise

Well pleasant, I think you have confirmed why you wouldn't make it as a SB. Trust me, the ladies who gave me two hours when I paid for one made the money back twice over in tips and extras and the enjoyment they had being with me. They weren't thinking of 'social rates'. If you need to be compensated for every minute and you feel that you would be giving out 24/7 then you have missed the idea. You aren't interested in dating ALL your clients. You should be interested in giving some social time to gentlemen that you feel good being with even when not in the bedroom. That isn't dating and it isn't working. If it were a streetwalker walking up to my car and asking if I want a date would be correct. It isn't a date. It is a buisness transaction. (For the record, I don't do streetwalkers) In the SB/SD relationship both parties have some invested emotional interests. While the bottom line in analysis is that it is sex for money, the SD/SBs don't see it that way. They see it as two people each getting something out of the relationship. He can call when he is lonely and depressed or just plain horny and for the most part she will be there. She gets some or all of her financial needs met. It isn't a she gets x dollars/mo and she works for the money. There will be times when he gives money and there is no sex and times when she gives sex and there is no envelope on the nightstand. If I got extra time from some of the ladies it wasn't because I was the greatest man there was in the sack or because my tips covered the time. It was because each of us could be counted on to be there for the other with what they had to give. I just recently gave money to a lady to help her pay some bills. The money was given in a car and there was no sex performed. I suppose that at some time in the future when I am able or IF I am able I might get some benefit for being good. Even that lady I do not consider to be a SB because for the most part, it is still a quid pro quo arrangement and if I see her she calls it an appointment. It will be a SB/SD arrangement when I can call her and we can go to a private place and enjoy each other without a gift changing hands. Lastly, I have pretty much written the money I gave her off. She'll never be a SB because she still has a provider mentality. That is OK. Most human relationships evolve because there is mutual gain for both. Even the institution of marriage is based on the legalization of sex and the assumption that both parties will care for each other in good times and bad. Most divorces occur over money. Is marriage a 'sex for money' deal? Is she a PROVIDER? Is he a PROVIDER? Most would say not, but the component is there. The ladies who give me time on a regular basis choose to do so. You choose to be compensated by the hour. There is a huge difference. I've seen ladies stand before a judge with the arguement that the money was grocery money and that she was just so enamered by the gentlemen that she wanted to have sex even though they didn't know each others name. What do you think the judge ruled? If I have a lady and give her $500 to $5000 dollars and call her a week later and she says, "Come on over!" and she answers her door naked and lets me play with every hole on her golf course, how do you think a judge would rule on that? Sure technically both cases are sex for money but it is much easier to think legally and otherwise that the latter isn't.

I never heard of a three hile golf course!

There are 4 types of sugarbabies according to this article: If you want the link to article it is written by a lady that shows how to be a successful SB.

It is not a "guys" opinion, but a women who has obviously spent more time than she should have to think through this.

1.
Mercenary Sugar Baby.
Mercenary is just another word for a Sugar Baby who’s just
looking for financial benefits from her Sugar Daddy. From getting that tuition bill paid to
using credit cards with virtually no limits, the Mercenary Sugar Baby is looking to make
stacks of cash.
2.
Sugar Baby Opportunist.
This Sugar Baby is looking to benefit both emotionally and
financially. She wants a Sugar Daddy that won’t just take care of her bills, but can
provide her with a fulfilling emotional relationship as well.
3.
Sugar Baby Enhancer.
This Sugar Baby is looking to live the high life without receiving
any financial benefits. She already has the money to treat herself to what she wants – she
just wants the right man to open those exclusive restaurant and club doors!
4.
Traditional Sugar Baby.
She’s looking to meet with Sugar Daddies to form deep
emotional connections and have a fulfilling relationship with her Sugar Daddy.
So why is it so important to understand which Sugar Baby personality type you fall under?
The reasoning is simple: once you understand more about your Sugar Baby personality,
you can better communicate your needs and expectations to your Sugar Daddy.

Before we start off the Blueprint, let’s address a specific part of the Sugar Baby experience.
For many women, the thought of getting paid by men for their company might seem a bit
off-putting; however, Sugar Babies don’t see themselves as “getting paid.” Rather, she
sees her situation as showing her appreciation to the friend (the man) who helps her out.
She may also see it as “found money”, there for the taking if he’s willing to give it away.
Whatever or however Sugar Babies rationalize it, she does not see herself as getting paid.
In fact, the Sugar Baby is largely in control of the relationship. The Sugar Daddy’s treatment
of her must conform to her sense of reality, not is, or he’ll lose what he found. Few girls ever
take the step of having sex for money in their mind, and those who take that step rarely
recover. Sugar Babies will instantly disappear if they sense that’s what their Sugar Daddy is
after, as it’s a sign that he wants to control her in some way.

Just read through all this fairly carefully and personally knowing a couple of the posters makes it interesting but somewhat surprising to see how choices of words can cause strong disagreement.

First, Olivia --- hi there. Long time dear lady. If you ever come to Dallas, let me know. Coffee, lunch, dinner or whatever! Just pm me.

Woody --- knowing you and Olivia, you would be pleasantly surprised by the fact that you would probably be in agreement with each other 98% of the time on this topic.

To show how much interest there is in some type of SD/SB special friendship, here's a Dallas thread I started that has over 5,000 views. Feel free to pipe in on the thread as I truly believe this discussion helps both the men and women in the hobby world since, after all, we are all looking for more love in our lives on whatever level it shows up.

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=777204